What Does God Mean When He Says His Word Is Alive

[JD731]

Note: This thread is not about the KJV.

God says this over and over and therefore it must be considered. We must define the word of God and we must understand what the word "alive" means in the context of the word of God.

Here are a couple passages just for reference.

Jn 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

1 Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

[Deacon]

So…
I understand that God’s word brings life to those that believe in him.
I’ve read the passage you posted.
Where does God say “his word is alive”?

You may post passage locations but don’t feel you need to post the whole passage.

Please try to communicate directly, clearly and plainly.

Rob

 

[JD731]

So…
I understand that God’s word brings life to those that believe in him.
I’ve read the passage you posted.
Where does God say “his word is alive”?

You may post passage locations but don’t feel you need to post the whole passage.

Please try to communicate directly, clearly and plainly.

Rob

I really thought maybe we could discuss what is clearly stated, not if it is stated.
"by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

It is the seed that gives life to others in this context in 1 Pe 1.

 

[JD731]

So…
I understand that God’s word brings life to those that believe in him.
Rob

So, your concise answer is that no life actually exists in the word of God but it is described in the scriptures in this manner because it brings life to the believer?

Interesting. You could be right but a conception takes place, no?

1 Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

 

[Deacon]

Okay, you are looking at the short phrase, “by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

“for you have been born again not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.” 1 Peter 1:23 LSB​

Peter was writing to a large scattered group of believers and uses the word “living” early in his epistle to describe to describe the “hope” that we obtain upon our new birth in Christ.

It is not the type of hope one has when they “hope” they will win the lottery.
It is a hope built upon a confident expectation, a faith or trust that God is trustworthy and able to do what he says.

Peter follows this up this idea in the passage you quoted (1:23) by assuring us that God’s word is “living” because it emanates from God himself: it is wholly trustworthy and reliable, forever.

Rob

 

[JD731]

Okay, you are looking at the short phrase, “by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

“for you have been born again not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.” 1 Peter 1:23 LSB​

Peter was writing to a large scattered group of believers and uses the word “living” early in his epistle to describe to describe the “hope” that we obtain upon our new birth in Christ.

It is not the type of hope one has when they “hope” they will win the lottery.
It is a hope built upon a confident expectation, a faith or trust that God is trustworthy and able to do what he says.

Peter follows this up this idea in the passage you quoted (1:23) by assuring us that God’s word is “living” because it emanates from God himself: it is wholly trustworthy and reliable, forever.

Rob

In my quote, there is an admonition, "being" born again as an ongoing proposition. In yours it is a past event, "for you have been born again." In my quote, there is a distinction made between the word of God and the word of the Lord in the scriptures. In your quote the distinction is wiped away.

 

[Deacon]

Interesting observation, JD!
Are you suggesting that we are born again daily or that it is a progressive continual birthing?

The question takes me back to the Greek text of 1 Peter.

1) Both the NA28 and Steven's TR (1550) of 1 Peter 1:3-5 and 1:23 are similar (the only difference is that the Byzantine texts has a variant which adds εις τον αιωνα (forever) at the end of verse 23. (It clarifies but doesn't change any meaning.)

2) We can look back at the thoughts of the translators through the few notes that they left.
The Reverend John Bois commented:

"The participles ζῶντος [living] and μένοντος [abiding] it seems ought to be referred rather to λόγου [word], than to
θεοῦ [God]. because of that which follows in the last verse."
Translating for King James, Notes made by a translator of King James Bible. Translated and edited by Ward Allen. Vanderbilt University Press. 1969. p. 91​

Doesn't help much.

3) We can compare other versions:
Douay-Rheims (from the Latin) "being born again"
Wyclif (from the Latin) "and be ye born again"

Geneva "being borne anew"
AV "being born again"

NKJV "*having been born again" (* being)
ASV "having been begotten"
ESV "since you have been born again"
NET "you have been born anew"
Lexham "because you have been born again"
NIV "for you have been born again"
NRSV "for you have been born anew"

Comparing versions leads me to understand that most, if not all other versions read it as a past event.

4) I don't know enough Greek to argue tenses but 1 Peter 1:3 uses the word as well and is translated in the AV as an event that has already happened.

"hath begotten us again unto a lively hope"​

I'd guess that "being born again" is the present state of someone who has been born again.

Rob

 

[JD731]

Interesting observation, JD!
Are you suggesting that we are born again daily or that it is a progressive continual birthing?

The question takes me back to the Greek text of 1 Peter.

1) Both the NA28 and Steven's TR (1550) of 1 Peter 1:3-5 and 1:23 are similar (the only difference is that the Byzantine texts has a variant which adds εις τον αιωνα (forever) at the end of verse 23. (It clarifies but doesn't change any meaning.)

2) We can look back at the thoughts of the translators through the few notes that they left.
The Reverend John Bois commented:

"The participles ζῶντος [living] and μένοντος [abiding] it seems ought to be referred rather to λόγου [word], than to
θεοῦ [God]. because of that which follows in the last verse."
Translating for King James, Notes made by a translator of King James Bible. Translated and edited by Ward Allen. Vanderbilt University Press. 1969. p. 91​

Doesn't help much.

3) We can compare other versions:
Douay-Rheims (from the Latin) "being born again"
Wyclif (from the Latin) "and be ye born again"

Geneva "being borne anew"
AV "being born again"

NKJV "*having been born again" (* being)
ASV "having been begotten"
ESV "since you have been born again"
NET "you have been born anew"
Lexham "because you have been born again"
NIV "for you have been born again"
NRSV "for you have been born anew"

Comparing versions leads me to understand that most, if not all other versions read it as a past event.

4) I don't know enough Greek to argue tenses but 1 Peter 1:3 uses the word as well and is translated in the AV as an event that has already happened.

"hath begotten us again unto a lively hope"​

I'd guess that "being born again" is the present state of someone who has been born again.

Rob

Logos1560 brought up an interesting point. He opined that the Matthew Bible and another translation, I forget which one) could possibly be alive, though different words. Therefore, I am impressed by the comments that it is not the words that have the life in it but the message, no matter how it is expressed. Is that your position?Is that the meaning of the word of God being alive?

 

[Deacon]

...He opined that the Matthew Bible and another translation, I forget which one) could possibly be alive, though different words.

Here is some musings of mine, JD. (not criticism or attack).

I'm reacting to your mention of "different words".
I don't like the phrasing of the 'word of God' as being "alive".
It connotes (to me) the idea of a separate being, apart from God, something that grows and changes.
I don't have the same reaction to the expression, "the word of God is living" (it is an adjective with a different meaning to me).

Yet there is a Scriptural dissertation about Jesus being God's word (Hebrews, chapters 1-4).
God speaks through his living Son (Hebrews 1:1-14).

What exactly is the "word of God"? The book of Hebrews describes it as follows:

It is the word that was spoken by God
It is God's message to humankind
It includes both God's spoken and his written word
It includes his full revelation; his promises, his warnings, in both the OT and NT (and even in nature, [Ps .19])

Hebrews 4:12–13 (LSB)
12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are uncovered and laid bare to the eyes of Him to whom we have an account to give.​

Here the word of God is given a personality. "no creature is hidden from His sight".
Hebrews connects the expression of God's message to His Son.
This by no means implies my physical Bible is God's Son or is alive in itself. lol

Anyway, I spent some time today thinking about it.

Rob

 

[JD731]

[

Here is some musings of mine, JD. (not criticism or attack).

I'm reacting to your mention of "different words".
I don't like the phrasing of the 'word of God' as being "alive".
It connotes (to me) the idea of a separate being, apart from God, something that grows and changes.
I don't have the same reaction to the expression, "the word of God is living" (it is an adjective with a different meaning to me).

Yet there is a Scriptural dissertation about Jesus being God's word (Hebrews, chapters 1-4).
God speaks through his living Son (Hebrews 1:1-14).

What exactly is the "word of God"? The book of Hebrews describes it as follows:

It is the word that was spoken by God
It is God's message to humankind
It includes both God's spoken and his written word
It includes his full revelation; his promises, his warnings, in both the OT and NT (and even in nature, [Ps .19])

Hebrews 4:12–13 (LSB)
12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are uncovered and laid bare to the eyes of Him to whom we have an account to give.​

Here the word of God is given a personality. "no creature is hidden from His sight".
Hebrews connects the expression of God's message to His Son.
This by no means implies my physical Bible is God's Son or is alive in itself. lol

Anyway, I spent some time today thinking about it.

Rob

Since we are focused on First Peter and his dealing with the word of God being the living seed that is producing the new birth among this distinct subset of people he writes to, I offer the following logic.
God the Father, and what he is accomplishing in this chapter and epistle among these people, is the principle personality and the epistle is about what he is doing for them. He says they are become the sons of God through the new birth and he says he, God the Father, is doing it through the word of God.


1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Comparing these two verses saying that Jesus Christ and the word of God accomplishes the same thing, why would it be unreasonable to think God the Father is saying both are one and the same?

 

[Deacon]

Comparing these two verses saying that Jesus Christ and the word of God accomplishes the same thing, why would it be unreasonable to think God the Father is saying both are one and the same?

John 1:1–4 (NRSV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people.

John 1:14 (NRSV)
And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth.​

In this passage, John personifies the Word.
1) by the use of the word, "He" (1:2)
2) by the use of the word, λόγος (logos, word ) personified as God (1:1).

There is no doubt that this Word is alive.

Jesus is the Word. The Word gives life.
Jesus was the message to the world and gives life to the world.

So what does it mean when we say the word of God is alive?

Simple answer: God's message is active, unfailing, trustworthy, never ending,.... and gives life to the world.

Rob

 

[JD731]

[


Since we are focused on First Peter and his dealing with the word of God being the living seed that is producing the new birth among this distinct subset of people he writes to, I offer the following logic.
God the Father, and what he is accomplishing in this chapter and epistle among these people, is the principle personality and the epistle is about what he is doing for them. He says they are become the sons of God through the new birth and he says he, God the Father, is doing it through the word of God.


1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Comparing these two verses saying that Jesus Christ and the word of God accomplishes the same thing, why would it be unreasonable to think God the Father is saying both are one and the same?

John 1:1–4 (NRSV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people.

John 1:14 (NRSV)
And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth.​

In this passage, John personifies the Word.
1) by the use of the word, "He" (1:2)
2) by the use of the word, λόγος (logos, word ) personified as God (1:1).

There is no doubt that this Word is alive.

Jesus is the Word. The Word gives life.
Jesus was the message to the world and gives life to the world.

So what does it mean when we say the word of God is alive?

Simple answer: God's message is active, unfailing, trustworthy, never ending,.... and gives life to the world.

Rob

Thanks Deacon. So you state that it is God’s message that is active and gives life to the world and not necessarily his words. You would say the words through which the message is delivered is not that important?

This of course would give justification for more and more translations by the church of Jesus Christ, with the message expressed in many different words, no?

 

[Deacon]

Messages are conveyed through words.
Verbal plenary inspiration holds that every word given to the authors of Scripture was divinely inspired.
But single words by themselves hold very little communicative meaning. Words in context hold meaning and carry a message.
“The whole is greater than the sum of its parts”
Von Bertalanffy, General Systems Theory (1968)


It is the mission of believers to evangelize.
Translation of God’s word into the languages of the world offers a gift of life to the unsaved as well as a source of light and growth to believers.

Translations of God’s word carry the authority of the original words to the extent that they remain faithful to the original.

Rob

 

[John of Japan]

"For the word of God is quick [living], and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4:12).

That the Word of God is "living" is a figure of speech, "personification," in which a non-living thing is given qualities of a living person. In this case, the meaning is clear, because the Word of God (though not actually, literally alive) affects people spiritually, reaching into their souls and spirits just like a sword would stab someone to the bone.

 

[JD731]

Messages are conveyed through words.
Verbal plenary inspiration holds that every word given to the authors of Scripture was divinely inspired.
But single words by themselves hold very little communicative meaning. Words in context hold meaning and carry a message.
“The whole is greater than the sum of its parts”
Von Bertalanffy, General Systems Theory (1968)


It is the mission of believers to evangelize.
Translation of God’s word into the languages of the world offers a gift of life to the unsaved as well as a source of light and growth to believers.

Translations of God’s word carry the authority of the original words to the extent that they remain faithful to the original.

Rob

So translations are sermons? The same would be true of any pastor or preacher in any pulpit. This would put the imputus on the hearers to determine if the words were true and there could be no confidence in the words of the translation until they were tried against the true words, right?

Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[JD731]

"For the word of God is quick [living], and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4:12).

That the Word of God is "living" is a figure of speech, "personification," in which a non-living thing is given qualities of a living person. In this case, the meaning is clear, because the Word of God (though not actually, literally alive) affects people spiritually, reaching into their souls and spirits just like a sword would stab someone to the bone.

The title "word of the LORD" in the OT and the "word of the Lord" in the NT is the designation for a person of the trinity, who we know now is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. We are first introduced to this title, as well as his name in the scriptures, in Ge 15. This is one of the most important transitional chapters in the scriptures. It is stated in Ro 4 as the time when Abrahams faith in his miraculous son, who was to be born unto he and Sarah, after the time of women, was imputed to him as righteousness. This is the beginning of Abraham as the father of faith. It is also the first mention of "the word of the LORD," who was actually visible to Abraham and it was the first mention and is the revelation of his name in this capacity, "Lord GOD (Adonay Jehovah)." This name will become prominent in the prophetic word following this event. It is the beginning of the third millennium of human history and the world will be different and the redemption of God through his own Son for mankind will become much more focused. The family of God will take on a distinct characteristic that takes place through a birth. Israel is the physical representative in the flesh as to what is true in the spiritual.

There is no excuse to be confused about the word of God being a living word. The scriptures are a physical representation of the spiritual.

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Footnote:
I am going to quote the KJV here. You may look at any translation you want. The manner in which this is presented is very important and biblegateway has it wrong in it's KJV translation.

Ge 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

The word of the LORD was a person and could be seen.

Some translations have been quoted on this thread that eliminated the word of the Lord in it's translation of 1 Peter 1. This is troubling to me.

 

[Conan]

Footnote:
I am going to quote the KJV here. You may look at any translation you want. The manner in which this is presented is very important and biblegateway has it wrong in it's KJV translation.

Please excuse the intrusion, but what exactly did biblegateway get wrong in it's KJV translation?

 

[JD731]

Please excuse the intrusion, but what exactly did biblegateway get wrong in it's KJV translation?

Bible Gateway Quote
Ge 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.This is not the first time the English LORD God (Jehovah Elohim) appears in scripture. It is the first time the name Lord GOD (Adonai Jehovah) appears. Elohim is a plural for Jehovah, three in one and one in three. Adonai is a servant but he is stll Jehovah. These names are very important for our doctrine of God. Bible Gateway got it wrong. I noticed it long ago and I am very careful when quoting from their rendering.

The Lord (Jehovah - should have been all caps) said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Ps 110:1

 

[John of Japan]

The title "word of the LORD" in the OT and the "word of the Lord" in the NT is the designation for a person of the trinity, who we know now is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. We are first introduced to this title, as well as his name in the scriptures, in Ge 15. This is one of the most important transitional chapters in the scriptures. It is stated in Ro 4 as the time when Abrahams faith in his miraculous son, who was to be born unto he and Sarah, after the time of women, was imputed to him as righteousness. This is the beginning of Abraham as the father of faith. It is also the first mention of "the word of the LORD," who was actually visible to Abraham and it was the first mention and is the revelation of his name in this capacity, "Lord GOD (Adonay Jehovah)." This name will become prominent in the prophetic word following this event. It is the beginning of the third millennium of human history and the world will be different and the redemption of God through his own Son for mankind will become much more focused. The family of God will take on a distinct characteristic that takes place through a birth. Israel is the physical representative in the flesh as to what is true in the spiritual.

There is no excuse to be confused about the word of God being a living word. The scriptures are a physical representation of the spiritual.

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Footnote:
I am going to quote the KJV here. You may look at any translation you want. The manner in which this is presented is very important and biblegateway has it wrong in it's KJV translation.

Ge 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

The word of the LORD was a person and could be seen.

Some translations have been quoted on this thread that eliminated the word of the Lord in it's translation of 1 Peter 1. This is troubling to me.

The Bible never specifically says that Jesus Christ is alive. That is self evident. His incarnation teaches us that, yes, Jesus Christ is a living human being.

In the verse I gave (Heb. 4:12, it says that the Word of God is "quick" (living) and like a sword. That is the meaning of the Word of God being alive--the written Word, the Scriptures. Jesus Himself is nowhere in Scripture called a sword. Instead, a sword comes from His mouth (Revelation 1:16, 2:16), and it is the sword that He has (Revelation 2:12). So He has a sword, but He is not a living sword.

If your OP was about Jesus Christ and why is He called the Living Word, then you have missed the whole meaning of the figure of speech, and not understood the incarnation.

 

[JD731]

The Bible never specifically says that Jesus Christ is alive. That is self evident. His incarnation teaches us that, yes, Jesus Christ is a living human being.

In the verse I gave (Heb. 4:12, it says that the Word of God is "quick" (living) and like a sword. That is the meaning of the Word of God being alive--the written Word, the Scriptures. Jesus Himself is nowhere in Scripture called a sword. Instead, a sword comes from His mouth (Revelation 1:16, 2:16), and it is the sword that He has (Revelation 2:12). So He has a sword, but He is not a living sword.

If your OP was about Jesus Christ and why is He called the Living Word, then you have missed the whole meaning of the figure of speech, and not understood the incarnation.

Well, my op was asking for opinion on what God means when he says his word is alive and continues to live. I note your opinion that he is merely using a metaphor and he does not actually mean it is living in any real sense. I appreciate you explaining how you arrived at your conclusion.

I will say that the word of the LORD, the Lord GOD, was ministering to men for at least 400 years before the first word of our Bible was written by Moses.