What does "in Christ" mean?

[HankD]

I am not sure what you mean by "molecular" but the usage of the terminology of "by one Spirit" is similar to:

Luke 2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple.

Did the Spirit pick Him up and carry Him or did it lead Him to go into the temple?

Luke 4:1 And Jesus . . . was led by the Spirit into the wilderness.

Taken by the hand and pulled along, or influenced and encouraged?

I know that I followed the Lord in believer's baptism due to the leading/convicting of the Holy Spirit in my life. And doing so made me one with the body, in unity with the local assembly belonging to the Lord.

All those things are true I just find myself resisting the illustrations that it means the leading and conviction of the Spirit - rather it is He Himself who has baptized us into the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

There is the metaphorical statement at the end of the verse "all made to drink into one Spirit" don't know of any churches which requires candidates to drink the water

HankD

 

[HankD]

The person who dunks you is irrelevant. Baptismal authority is vested in the New Testament church.

The New Testament church.

Which flavor?
The Catholic, CoE, Methodist, ... etc, etc

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

Which flavor?
The Catholic, CoE, Methodist, ... etc, etc

Do you honestly believe those are biblical, New Testament churches?

 

[TCassidy]

There is the metaphorical statement at the end of the verse "all made to drink into one Spirit" don't know of any churches which requires candidates to drink the water

May I assume you are posting such childish nonsense because you have no cogent argument to offer?

 

[Yeshua1]

The problem with either verse relating to water baptism is that I can hear my former foes on the Puritan Board saying to me. "And how do you know that water baptism infallibly conveys the Spirit?" We know that Simon Magus was baptized in water, but he was not baptized into the congregational body (Acts 8:21), and presumably the same applied to Ananias and Sapphira and Alexander the Coppersmith.

My own view is that water baptism signifies the believer's union with Christ and is not automatically entry into church membership, though that will normally follow. We must beware of seeming to give magical sacramental powers to water baptism.

We best leave it to being as we baptists see it, as the outward sign of that already inward work. That is why being Baptized in Holy Spirit to me would be Him placing us into Jesus as a result of real salvation, not a sign as the water would be!

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you honestly believe those are biblical, New Testament churches?

The NT Church would be those assemblies that teach the Gospel message. baptize, and other functions, but not just Baptists .

 

[The Biblicist]

All those things are true I just find myself resisting the illustrations that it means the leading and conviction of the Spirit - rather it is He Himself who has baptized us into the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

There is the metaphorical statement at the end of the verse "all made to drink into one Spirit" don't know of any churches which requires candidates to drink the water

HankD

The first problem that Paul deals with at Corinth is the division within the congregation over baptismal administrators (1 Cor.1:13-17). He responds to this issue by primarily referring to Apollos and himself (as the major divisions were probably divided between these two) in chapters 1-4. The way he responds is (1) The gospel rather than baptism is where the power of God is found to salvation (ch. 1:17-31). The word of the gospel in the hands of the Holy Spirit is where the power of the gospel resides rather than the preacher or his eloquence is where the power of salvation resides (ch. 2). All ministers work under "one" boss - the Holy Spirit and the ministers as well as the candidates were all equally led by the same Spirit, who is the actuaHl builder of the congregational body in Corinth and thus the temple of the Spirit (ch. 3). Also, all gifted differences between ministers and members is determined by the Spirit (ch. 4).

When he comes to the division over spiritual gifts in chapters 12-14 within the congregational body of Christ at Corinth he applies the very same principles laid down in 1 Corinthians 1-4 which are summarized in 1 Cor. 12-12-13. The local congregation is formed by the Holy Spirit and gifted as the Holy Spirit sees fit in order to carry out its commission where it is located and edify the members. That is what is meant by "made to drink into the Spirit" in 1 Cor.12:13 as verses 14-26 illustrates and then applies to the congregational body at Corinth in verse 27.

 

[HankD]

Do you honestly believe those are biblical, New Testament churches?

I don't know, what percentage of a local church has to be saved to make it a NT local church? How many have to have been immersed once using the Trinitarian formula to make it a valid NT church? What if the membership is mixed in terms of baptismal mode? What name on their shingle makes it a valid NT church?

Personally I prefer a church with baptist distinctives, preferably known as "Baptist" (Mine is), saved membership (as far as can be told) baptized by immersion, bible believing, fundamentalists (doctrinally).

Even then, I feel the questions above need to be answered.

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't know, what percentage of a local church has to be saved to make it a NT local church? How many have to have been immersed once using the Trinitarian formula to make it a valid NT church? What if the membership is mixed in terms of baptismal mode? What name on their shingle makes it a valid NT church?

Personally I prefer a church with baptist distinctives, preferably known as "Baptist" (Mine is), saved membership (as far as can be told) baptized by immersion, bible believing, fundamentalists (doctrinally).

Even then, I feel the questions above need to be answered.

HankD

Can Arminian chureches be NT ones? Can Reformed? can Charasmatic/Pentacostal? I say yes, but many here would disagree!

 

[HankD]

Can Arminian chureches be NT ones? Can Reformed? can Charasmatic/Pentacostal? I say yes, but many here would disagree!

There are valid issues to be considered and MANY combative voices out there in Christendom.

Personally I believe my local church - (a Baptist Church following the Baptist distinctives) to be a New Testament church.

I don't want to get embroiled in that discussion however, it can become ferocious even verbally violent

HankD

 

[HankD]

May I assume you are posting such childish nonsense because you have no cogent argument to offer?

No sir, you may not assume that it is childish nonsense (well not in this case anyway).

My point is that in this passage the entity to drink is not molecular (H2O) water but a metaphor for the Holy Spirit.

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

There is the metaphorical statement at the end of the verse "all made to drink into one Spirit" don't know of any churches which requires candidates to drink the water

My point is that in this passage the entity to drink is not molecular (H2O) water but a metaphor for the Holy Spirit.

I thought I made it clear when I said "And doing so made me one with the body, in unity with the local assembly belonging to the Lord."

 

[HankD]

I thought I made it clear when I said "And doing so made me one with the body, in unity with the local assembly belonging to the Lord."

Yes, I took note of that and I believe now by your response that you took offense, I am sorry.

I was not aiming that at you Tom, you are one of the last persons on earth i want to be guilty of offending.


HankD

 

[TCassidy]

you are one of the last persons on earth i want to be guilty of offending.

You didn't offend me. I should have used the .

 

[HankD]

You didn't offend me. I should have used the .

Thanks Dr T

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

Think that many of us will be surprised who God brought into Heaven, under what church label!