What does it mean to submit?

[Alive in Christ]

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[Alive in Christ]

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[trustitl]

I believe that with all of the previous in mind, the submission of the wife would come into play when they reach a complete "stalemate". Regarding the issue at hand, there is a disagreement and neither side will budge.

Well...a decision HAS to be made. You cant go left and right at the same time.

The husband makes the decision, and the 2 of them go in that direction.

I don't think Paul is setting up a situation that exists in the US Senate where the Vice President gets to cast the deciding vote in a 50-50 split vote. He is dealing with something more intangible than that. A "stalemate" implies a chess game where two people are trying to gain victory over their opponent. If that is the case in a marriage, THAT needs to be dealt with before some insignificant decision.

When my marriage has come to that point , as the head, I am to recognize that and get us to come together. When that happens the decision doesn't seem that important any more. If my wife will not submit to that I usually say that I am going to do things her way and tell her that I trust she has prayerfully considered her position and God is using her to be my helpmeet. If He is things work out. If He isn't, she usually sees that she is trying to "rule over me" and is merely walking in the flesh.

Here is the best advice I give couples: If one person wins both you both lose.

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't think Paul is setting up a situation that exists in the US Senate where the Vice President gets to cast the deciding vote in a 50-50 split vote. He is dealing with something more intangible than that. A "stalemate" implies a chess game where two people are trying to gain victory over their opponent. If that is the case in a marriage, THAT needs to be dealt with before some insignificant decision.

When my marriage has come to that point , as the head, I am to recognize that and get us to come together. When that happens the decision doesn't seem that important any more. If my wife will not submit to that I usually say that I am going to do things her way and tell her that I trust she has prayerfully considered her position and God is using her to be my helpmeet. If He is things work out. If He isn't, she usually sees that she is trying to "rule over me" and is merely walking in the flesh.

Here is the best advice I give couples: If one person wins both you both lose.

If my wife will not submit to that I usually say that I am going to do things her way and tell her that I trust she has prayerfully considered her position and God is using her to be my helpmeet

Now that is a man on a mission...........:laugh: :laugh: Oh how truthful.

You can always say, when you have to give in, that she is your helpmate, so in the long run, it is your will being done........ She is being submissive, it is just hard to see... Us men always figure a way out, now we are smart people......., when she tells you to run the sweeper, or do the dishes, you can always say "she is my helpmate"......

So, you ladies listen up. You are just being submissive when you tell your husband to take out the garbage, or you say to him "I got a headache". You are not the boss, just a helpmate, you hear!!!

I am going to turn the sweeper off right now! and go tell my wife she is just a "helpmate".........

Man, I am 69 years old, but I am going to use that. I wrote it down for future references!!!!!!!!!!!! No one better say anything to me anymore, about wearing an apron.........

hmmm, Wonder why the Lord told her, to have me sweep the "whole" house?????????

BBob,

 

[LeBuick]

Great post Bro Bob, I am on my way in to service now but I need to make sure I don't burn the roast I have in the oven. I do just about all the cooking in our house. Helpmate doesn't mean servant and submissive doesn't imply no input.

I came to the realization a long time ago that I am not complete by myself. Being in the ministry further exposes this truth. My bone on bone, flesh on flesh helpmate is truly a gift from God and a reciprocating addition that makes US whole (one). It is also good she can tell me what I need to know but don't want to hear...

It was God himself who said, "it is not good for man to be alone". In case anyone is wondering, this is what I'll be preaching on today.

 

[knasmom]

I see the "submission" of the wife to her husband issue to be very much misunderstood, imo.

Compared to the passage about the wifes "submission" to her husband, we find mulitudes upon multitudes of scriptures that speak of the principle that ALL of us, men and women, married or single, together....in other words, ALL CHRISTIANS...are to be slow to speak, and quick to listen, that we are to be humble and respectful of others, that we are ALL to be humble and TEACHABLE. (Both women and men)

I'm not going to post all of the scriptures, since I am confident that everyone is biblically literate enough to know that they are there.

So, in light of the abundance of those scriptures, compared to the relativly few scriptures speaking to "wifely submission", I would say that the important thing in marriage is for the wife to be quick to listen to her husband, and the husband should be equally quick to listen to his wife.

The wife should accept that maybe the husbands idea is better, while the husband should be equally accepting of the possibility that the wifes idea could be better. And if so, change and go along with her idea.

If he is to "love his wife as Christ loved the church" (as the passage says) than that would mean sometimes being the one to "submit", since Christ "submitted" to the point of death for His "wife" (the Church)

They both should be equally able and willing to joyfully "submit" to each other.

Now, back to the scripture about the wifes "submission" to her husband.

I believe that with all of the previous in mind, the submission of the wife would come into play when they reach a complete "stalemate". Regarding the issue at hand, there is a disagreement and neither side will budge.

Well...a decision HAS to be made. You cant go left and right at the same time.

The husband makes the decision, and the 2 of them go in that direction.

And if it doesnt work out, we men all know full well what "I told you so" can sound like at those times. :laugh:


:godisgood:

What if they're at a stalemate and she knows she's right?

We're having one now. I lost my job late last year and can't seem to find another one. He wants to live like we did on two incomes only we can't. He just keeps telling me not to worry about it as I watch our savings deplete. We are spending money on things we do not need just because he wants them, like a storage unit so the basement and garage aren't cluttered, he golfs 2 times a week, he spent $1500 on new golf clubs, he has a couple of premium services (gourmet coffee delivered to the house and a CD club) he won't even drive to save gas. In the meanwhile, I spend nothing on me trying to do damage repair. I see the cost of everything. And to add insult to injury, he wants to sell the house and move t a bigger one. I'm scared to put that for sale sign out front. He can't qualify for what he's looking at on his income alone and I haven't had even a nibble on a job in months.

Could you describe submission in a case like this? I don't understand what he's thinking. He seems to think his income is enough but it's really a couple thousand short per month the way he spends money. Oh and he gets mad when I have to transfer money from savings. I tried to get him to write a budget but he says we don't need one. He says budgets are for people who don't make enough.

I'm really struggling with this. To me it's time to get rid of unnecssary services. Go to basic cable (no TV reception at all without something) on one TV, get rid of the storage unit, buy coffee in a can at the grocery store, turn up the theromstat, eat what's on sale, drop the yard service, drop the monitored alarm service on the house....the only thing he's dropped is our dental insurance and I tried to tell him that would save us money because I need a crown and just the cost of the crown covers the permium for the year. So I put an aspirin on a tooth when I get up every morning.

I'm sure I'm right here. Does submission require me to follow him when he's wrong?

 

[trustitl]

He... he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...

Rather than quote your entire post I thought I would just point out that you mentioned 13 flaws about your man in a 3 minute post. I can't imagine what it is like in your home all day and all week long. You end your post with a raying: face. Rather than praying for God to change your man I think you need to be asking for yourself.

Try encouraging him for a month and focusing on all the good in him (not to manipulate him into what you want him to be, but to help him become what God wants him to be for that is your role in his life). Your honoring and reverencing him is based on his position not his performance. Make him glad to come home to the women he longed for when he first met you. Light the fire of love and passion again and see where things go.

I will post some links again and encourage you to go there. If you can't afford the book let me know and I will get you one. My wife has given out a bunch of them and would get one for you too.

http://www.createdtobehishelpmeet.org/testimonies?id=YZ4iWfQ7

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/marriage-family/husbandwife-relations/

 

[knasmom]

He... he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...he...

Rather than quote your entire post I thought I would just point out that you mentioned 13 flaws about your man in a 3 minute post. I can't imagine what it is like in your home all day and all week long. You end your post with a raying: face. Rather than praying for God to change your man I think you need to be asking for yourself.

Try encouraging him for a month and focusing on all the good in him (not to manipulate him into what you want him to be, but to help him become what God wants him to be for that is your role in his life). Your honoring and reverencing him is based on his position not his performance. Make him glad to come home to the women he longed for when he first met you. Light the fire of love and passion again and see where things go.

I will post some links again and encourage you to go there. If you can't afford the book let me know and I will get you one. My wife has given out a bunch of them and would get one for you too.

http://www.createdtobehishelpmeet.org/testimonies?id=YZ4iWfQ7

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/marriage-family/husbandwife-relations/

Could you answer the queston? What does submission look like in this case? Do we just keep spending money as if nothing has changed? What happens when there's nothing left in savings and the bills can't be paid that month or after that?

I don't understand what he's thinking. He won't talk about it. I just get told not to worry about it. Yet we take $2000 out of savings every month or more depending on what he spends. We can't keep going like this. I can see that but he can't. If I'm supposed to be his helpmeet and I can see the folly of continuing to live this way, shouldn't I be doing something to change the situation?

The only job I had a shot at paid $25/hr on a 1099 but he said that wasn't enough since it was on a 1099. I wish I'd just taken it.

Can any of you gentlemen shed light on what he's thinking? Any ideas where he's trying to lead us? I don't get it.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I will just repost my previous post. I know sometimes it's not easy, but you must remember, if you are not in submission to your husband...you are not in submission to God

God
Husband
Wife
Children
Grandchildren
Parents
Grandparents

Some may disagree with me, but IMHO this is submission functioning properly. Of course, submitting one to another, but in the order above.



I already gave one example:

1) Putting others wishes before your own.

Here is another one:

2) If you want one thing and your husband wants another, sit down and talk about it, pray about it together, seek Godly counsel, and if you still cannot come into agreement, do what your husband says.

If it is a wrong move, your husband is responsible before God, because you are in your place of submission to your husband. You still need to support your husband so he can correct his mistake.

Pray diligently for your husband. God can show him his errors much better than you can.

Appealing to your husband in a submissive manner will get you a lot farther than arguing, nagging or telling him he's wrong.

You may not be able to have your home in order...but you CAN be in order in your home.

 

[knasmom]

I will just repost my previous post. I know sometimes it's not easy, but you must remember, if you are not in submission to your husband...you are not in submission to God



Pray diligently for your husband. God can show him his errors much better than you can.

Appealing to your husband in a submissive manner will get you a lot farther than arguing, nagging or telling him he's wrong.

You may not be able to have your home in order...but you CAN be in order in your home.

Problem is, if we keep going like this, we may not have a home. Right now, I'm scared. I always figured if something happened to one of our jobs, we'd just cut back and make do until things got better. Seems like we're spending more than ever now and I don't get it.

So, even if he wipes out our savings and we lose our house I'm to submit. Pass on jobs he doesn't think are good enough and just keep spending money like nothing has changed? That's hard to do becuase it just seems really dumb to do those things.

I'm sorry but I'm having a really hard time with this. It took us so long to save the little we have and we're running through it like there's no tomorrow and I don't know what's going to happen when the money is gone. I feel so much pressure about not having a job as a result and I don't know what to do. I feel like we're barreling full steam ahead towards a bridge that's washed out and it's going to be a mess when we hit it but he refuses to apply the brakes and I don't understand why. What will losing everything prove?

 

[knasmom]

I guess I'm venting more than anything. I just don't know what to do. The job I was sure I'd be able to get if all else failed fell through. He was sure I'd get it too. Now I'm back to square one and we've run through over half of our savings already.

Right now, submitting feels like sitting in the back seat praying while my husband, blissfully unaware drives a car with no brakes 100 MPH aimed at a brick wall.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I would have to pray really hard NOT to have a problem with this and I would be scared too. I sometimes think a man doesn't realize how much security means to a woman and we don't feel safe without it.

This old cliche still works, "Trust in God", but I know where you're coming from because I've been there.

Has your husband always been like this? Has he let money replace relying on God? Have you? Could he be going through a second childhood? Has he been checked out by a doctor lately? Have the two of you sought Godly counsel or gone to your pastor?

I don't know if any of these questions work, I'm just trying to offer some suggestions. I can feel your fear, but please don't let it rob you of your relationship with God.

I went through something very similar and we did end up losing our home, all our good credit, etc. It was very hard. I don't know if it was a 'Job' type situation or not, but I can tell you truthfully, I, like 'Job', have more today than I did back then and I am able to stay home and enjoy it.

Try to hang in there, pray for God to speak to your husband, and get some Godly counsel, if possible.

I will be praying for you.
§ue

 

[Brother Bob]

Sometimes you have to use a little pushing!!



BBob,

 

[knasmom]

Sometimes you have to use a little pushing!!



BBob,

Can I borrow that club?

I Am Blessed,

He's always been free with spending money and had a problem seeing how far it goes. We've always struggled with me being the saver and him the spender to the point neither of us is usually happy. Had it been up to him, we would have had nothing in savings. Had it been up to me, we would have had twice what we had. I'm not sure what it is but we're, definitely, on opposite ends of the spectrum. Personally, I think that means we should meet in the middle. Extremes usually aren't good.

I'm very worried that he won't try to change anything until it's too late. When there's nothing left in the bank to tap into. Then I don't know what he'll do. I'm not sure he can handle that. I've always made enough that spending wasn't an issue. He chose to live like my job could never go away. Then it did. I thought that would wake him up but it didn't. He's sure I'm going to find a job and it will all be fine.

We look at money so differently. I looked at the years where we had more than enough as a time to save because we were going to need it. I asked myself "Why would God give us excess?" and decided that either A. I was to do something with it or B. I was to save it because I was going to need it. My husband went shopping.

You are right about security and women. To me, the money in the bank is security and needs to be protected. He sees it as more of an insurance policy so he doesn't have to change his lifestyle only it's not unlmited. We can continue for about 6 more months at this pace. Then we'll be tapping 401K funds to pay the mortgage. I feel very insecure right now.

I think what I really don't get is that we can live off of his income. It would be tight compared to what we're used to, but still better than many. I would feel very secure if he'd do that.

Listen to me. Here I am WANTING my husband to write a tight budget and tell me we have to stick to it :laugh: I think women usually complain about that when their husband's do it. That would make me feel so secure right now.

I have a friend who complains that her husband doesn't allow for any slack in the budget so that he can save money. Sometimes I want to smack her and say "He's guarding your future". I won't smack her though. She's a good friend even if she is annoying at times :laugh:

Can I ask for prayers? Prayers for me to relax a bit. It is entirely possible for me to find work before we go broke. Prayers for him to see that I really need to feel secure right now and would if we lived off of his income. I wouldn't even care if his extra stuff came out of savings as long as we were in position that we weren't tapping savings to pay the bills. It's knowing I'm depleting savings to pay bills that really bothers me. If it's being spent on extras, you can always just stop doing the extras if you have to. You can't quit paying the water bill. And prayers for me that I find the job God wants me to have. I made a lot of money at my old job but I wasn't happy there. I just want enough to pay the bills and be happy.

Thank you.

 

[LeBuick]

Could you answer the queston? What does submission look like in this case? Do we just keep spending money as if nothing has changed? What happens when there's nothing left in savings and the bills can't be paid that month or after that?.

I COR 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

I can't remember the last time we had enough money for any given month and if I did have it, I'd probably give it away. There is always someone who needs it more than I. My needs are not supplied by my job or bank account therefore I glory in not having for it is then that I get to see the abilities of my provider.

I think you are worrying and focusing on earthly things while letting what matters most slip by. You'll get by. You saved what you had and can do it again. Money comes and goes but LOVE... Now there lies life's true riches... Love will make you content living in a cardboard box and eating from a trashcan. Look at all the invisible people around you doing it everyday.

 

[Julie]

What does submission mean?.....
........well, I think that would be my mom.
Someone said that "Right now, submitting feels like sitting in the back seat praying while my husband, blissfully unaware drives a car with no brakes 100 MPH aimed at a brick wall." I know just how she feels.

Before my dad was saved, there was no living with him. He claimed he was a Christian, but he would beat my mom, he would scream and yell constantly, etc. He'd undo our electricity and water, and then leave for a couple days. He'd even threatened to kill her.
He knew the verses on forgiveness, submission, etc. like no one I've ever seen before, and knew just how the Bible said to react to him. Until, personally, I don't even want to hear about those things.

For my mom, though, none of those things were even the focus. She looked to God as her authority, and submitted to my dad for His sake. To her, my dad wasn't the person she was focusing on. She was focusing on God, and she submitted to the insane authority of my dad because of Him. She didn't give up her convictions, but she would obey him, even if it meant doing something she didn't think was best (for example not going to the church she liked, running up a credit card, etc.). Truthfully, I didn't like it, but I respect her. I honestly don't think I know anyone else who would have done it.
By posting this, I don't mean any disrespect for my dad, either. You can't hold people's past over them. I love both of my parents, and hope this doesn't in any way disrespect them.

 

[trustitl]

For my mom, though, none of those things were even the focus. She looked to God as her authority, and submitted to my dad for His sake. To her, my dad wasn't the person she was focusing on. She was focusing on God, and she submitted to the insane authority of my dad because of Him. She didn't give up her convictions, but she would obey him, even if it meant doing something she didn't think was best (for example not going to the church she liked, running up a credit card, etc.).

Excellent post Julie. As hard it as was to write some of this, you have shed light on the topic. I like to say she was letting God be God in her life as well as y our dad's.

I would add that a women can, and possibly should go to the police when her husband is beating her or trying to get her do do something illegal because God has ordained that authority for such men.

 

[Alive in Christ]

KNASMOM (Cynthia),

"What if they're at a stalemate and she knows she's right?

We're having one now. I lost my job late last year and can't seem to find another one. He wants to live like we did on two incomes only we can't. He just keeps telling me not to worry about it as I watch our savings deplete. We are spending money on things we do not need just because he wants them, like a storage unit so the basement and garage aren't cluttered, he golfs 2 times a week, he spent $1500 on new golf clubs, he has a couple of premium services (gourmet coffee delivered to the house and a CD club) he won't even drive to save gas. In the meanwhile, I spend nothing on me trying to do damage repair. I see the cost of everything. And to add insult to injury, he wants to sell the house and move t a bigger one. I'm scared to put that for sale sign out front. He can't qualify for what he's looking at on his income alone and I haven't had even a nibble on a job in months.

Could you describe submission in a case like this? I don't understand what he's thinking. He seems to think his income is enough but it's really a couple thousand short per month the way he spends money. Oh and he gets mad when I have to transfer money from savings. I tried to get him to write a budget but he says we don't need one. He says budgets are for people who don't make enough.

I'm really struggling with this. To me it's time to get rid of unnecssary services. Go to basic cable (no TV reception at all without something) on one TV, get rid of the storage unit, buy coffee in a can at the grocery store, turn up the theromstat, eat what's on sale, drop the yard service, drop the monitored alarm service on the house....the only thing he's dropped is our dental insurance and I tried to tell him that would save us money because I need a crown and just the cost of the crown covers the permium for the year. So I put an aspirin on a tooth when I get up every morning.

I'm sure I'm right here. Does submission require me to follow him when he's wrong?"

Whew. Thats a tough one. It seems to me to be exceedingly clear that you are in the right...in a HUGE way. In your marriage YOU should be the one in charge of the finances, not him. You are gifted in that area, and he should recognize that.

Your husband is in extreme denial.

I'm sure you are, but continue to PRAY PRAY PRAY PRAY PRAY for Him.

Pray that God give him enlightenment regarding the situation.

To be honest, your situation is an exact "flip side" of my ex-wife and I.

My ex-wife was a "spendaholic". Spending money was her hobby. She kept us in financial chaos for 9 years. She had thousands of dollars worth of clothes that she never wore. She had thousands of dollars of books that she never read. She continued to add debt on top of debt on top of debt.

We were getting along just fine sharing one car, but she one day said she wanted her own car . More debt of course. (car payments) We had no savings to speak of. I tried to share that, since we were doing fine sharing the one car, we needed to pay it off before getting a 2nd car. She couldnt see the wisdom.

One day while I was asleep a 2nd car was sitting out front when I woke up.

I tried for 9 years to reason with her, and help her to understand. But it went in one ear and out the other. In due time, some of the consequences of her "spendaholicism" began to come upon us.

Finally, she committed divorce.

It might take you guys "hitting rock bottom" for him to come to his senses. Losing the house. Having a car re-po'd. Bankruptcy, etc.

I sure hope not.

Will he go for counseling, with you of course, with your pastor?


:godisgood: