What does it mean when people say that Catholics...

[HungryInherit]

Crucify Christ over and over? Have people heard that? What's it mean exactly?

And in Catholic Churches and art Jesus is always depicted as sad and defeated? What's the deal? Any books that tackle these issues?

Thanks, look forward to reading the responses

 

[JonC]

My understanding is that it is because they view the Mass as the same Sacrifice of Calvary. “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of the offering is different. In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross in contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.”

 

[Ed B]

Catholics believe that the Eucharist is the giving and receiving of the actual body (wafer) and blood (wine) of Christ after the elements are consecrated by the priest. Thus Jesus is offered up as a sacrifice by millions of Catholics each time they take communion and grace is conveyed to the recipients of the elements.


Here is a link to a Catholic website where they discuss what is proper Catholic belief concerning the Eucharist along with the percentage showing what Catholic laity actually believes.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1340

 

[HAMel]

Catholics are looking "toward" the cross.

Born again believers are looking "from" the cross.

 

[Bro. James]

Books that tackle these issues: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etal.

"It is finished"

The tomb is empty. He is risen. His innocent blood is on the altar in heaven. He ever lives to make intercession for those redeemed.

There is no more sacrifice for sin--the debt has been paid in full.

Mohammed is still in his grave.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Zenas]

Most Catholic art depicting Jesus is very old, dating back to the early centuries of Christianity, and Jesus doesn’t look all that different from other characters drawn by artists from that time. I believe the “sad and defeated” look comes from two concepts: (1) “a man of sorrows,” Isaiah 53:3; and (2) the desire of the artist to portray how much Jesus suffered for us. This second concept of course would normally portray Jesus on the cross. Catholics don’t believe Jesus is still on the cross but they often portray Him thus as a reminder to us of His suffering.

However, not all Catholic art depicts Jesus as sad and defeated. See for example "Domine, Quo Vadis?" done in 1602:

The underlying theology is a little loose but the painting certainly portrays a strong and triumphant Lord.

 

[Yeshua1]

Crucify Christ over and over? Have people heard that? What's it mean exactly?

And in Catholic Churches and art Jesus is always depicted as sad and defeated? What's the deal? Any books that tackle these issues?

Thanks, look forward to reading the responses

the catholic church resacrifices jesus literally in each mass, as they hold that the Eucheriest is Him becoming in flesh in the communion wafer! anfd His blood actually is what the wine changes into, so he gets resacrifieced each and every Mass!

 

[Yeshua1]

My understanding is that it is because they view the Mass as the same Sacrifice of Calvary. “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of the offering is different. In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross in contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.”

This all violates hebrews, in that Jesus offerred himself once and for all on the Cross, and that sacrifice cannot be repeated, and to keep doing that blasphemes the Spirit of Grace, trampling underfoot the blood of Christ!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Catholics are looking "toward" the cross.

Born again believers are looking "from" the cross.

Excellent analogy. It is as though Catholic adherents are Israel in the wilderness, under attack from the poisonous snakes. God told Moses to make a bronze snake and mount it on a pole, and tell the people when they were bitten, they should look to the pole, "lifted up" above the congregation of Israel, and be healed. The snake was a "type" for Christ.

I believe you have stated it clearly: This is how most American Catholics deal with their sin. They don't realize it has already been dealt with at the cross. It is as though they anticipate its work to be necessarily renewed with each sin.

:thumbsup:

 

[Yeshua1]

Excellent analogy. It is as though Catholic adherents are Israel in the wilderness, under attack from the poisonous snakes. God told Moses to make a bronze snake and mount it on a pole, and tell the people when they were bitten, they should look to the pole, "lifted up" above the congregation of Israel, and be healed. The snake was a "type" for Christ.

I believe you have stated it clearly: This is how most American Catholics deal with their sin. They don't realize it has already been dealt with at the cross. It is as though they anticipate its work to be necessarily renewed with each sin.

:thumbsup:

The RCC is basically an Old Covenant church, with its high preiest and priests to go before God for their peoples, NOT having jesus as the great High priest fro them!

 

[HungryInherit]

Really enjoyed the responses thanks. Never realized that the literal and mystical
view of the Eucharist was essentially crucifying Christ again. Interesting analogies

 

[Yeshua1]

Really enjoyed the responses thanks. Never realized that the literal and mystical
view of the Eucharist was essentially crucifying Christ again. Interesting analogies

they worship the wafer and the wine, gross idolatry!

 

[OldRegular]

The RCC is basically an Old Covenant church, with its high preiest and priests to go before God for their peoples, NOT having jesus as the great High priest fro them!

I have long thought that the Roman Catholic priesthood is just an extension of the Levitical priesthood, including the fancy clothing. The Eucharist, based on a literal interpretation of John 6:53 is similar to the continual offering of animal sacrifice under the Mosaic Covenant, though animal sacrifice began immediately after the fall!

 

[Tom Butler]

I have heard Catholic friends refer to the Eucharist as the "unbloody sacrifice," which to me is an oxymoron.

Another aspect is that the wafer and the wine are believed to have salvific value, similar to baptism.

Essentially, to deny one the Eucharist is to deny them heaven. And one who is not given RC baptism is also without hope.

 

[OldRegular]

I have heard Catholic friends refer to the Eucharist as the "unbloody sacrifice," which to me is an oxymoron.

Many years ago when I was young I participated on a Christian Forum which had a great many Roman Catholics. With one accord they insisted that the Eucharist was an un-bloody sacrifice.

Another aspect is that the wafer and the wine are believed to have salvific value, similar to baptism.

I believe that is in the Canons of Trent but have not checked lately.

Essentially, to deny one the Eucharist is to deny them heaven. And one who is not given RC baptism is also without hope.

In one particularly intense debate I was told by an RC that I was "invincibly ignorant". I believe that mean't I was saved by the grace of the pope rather than the Grace of God. At least one other debater who was very knowledgeable in RC doctrine indicated that those classified as "invincibly ignorant" received a special dispensation from the pope. Whether that is "bull" or not I really can't say!

I will say this: Those who were adamantly against the RC error were more graciously treated by the RC on that Forum than those who disagree with dispensational doctrine are on this Forum.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have long thought that the Roman Catholic priesthood is just an extension of the Levitical priesthood, including the fancy clothing. The Eucharist, based on a literal interpretation of John 6:53 is similar to the continual offering of animal sacrifice under the Mosaic Covenant, though animal sacrifice began immediately after the fall!

Kinda.... but no Jew would ever claim celibacy. That is an invention of the RCC after they had a problem with their clergy abusing their status (which is natural if you are not born again)

 

[Zenas]

And one who is not given RC baptism is also without hope.

I would agree with you if you left out the "RC" as a modifier of baptism. However, baptism and holy matrimony are the only sacraments that Catholics recognize as valid when performed in another church. In other words, if you want to join the Catholic church you won't have to be rebaptized.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would agree with you if you left out the "RC" as a modifier of baptism. However, baptism and holy matrimony are the only sacraments that Catholics recognize as valid when performed in another church. In other words, if you want to join the Catholic church you won't have to be rebaptized.

Since when....they rebaptised my Father & most recently my SIL.

 

[Benjamin]

Many years ago when I was young I participated on a Christian Forum...

This being on the internet, I'm guessing you are defining "young" at about 50??? That's okay :love2: sounds good to me! :laugh:

 

[Yeshua1]

I have heard Catholic friends refer to the Eucharist as the "unbloody sacrifice," which to me is an oxymoron.

Another aspect is that the wafer and the wine are believed to have salvific value, similar to baptism.

Essentially, to deny one the Eucharist is to deny them heaven. And one who is not given RC baptism is also without hope.

That is why the Church of Rome teaches as paul would say another/different Gospel. for to them, slavation is a life long process, in which in the end we would merit God saving us!