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What Does Revelation 18:21-24 Teach Us about Acceptable Instrumental Music?

What does Revelation 18:22 teach us about instrumental music?

  • It does not teach us anything about acceptable instrumental music.

    Votes: 7 87.5%
  • It teaches us that at least some of Babylon's instrumental music was acceptable music.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It teaches us that at least some of Babylon's instrumental music was unacceptable music.

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    8

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
Revelation 18:22 is the final reference in Scripture that speaks about instrumental music:

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

What does this passage teach us about acceptable instrumental music? What is the right way to determine what it teaches about that subject?
 

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Revelation 18:22 is the final reference in Scripture that speaks about instrumental music:

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

What does this passage teach us about acceptable instrumental music? What is the right way to determine what it teaches about that subject?
The context is very specific:

“21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw [it] into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 “The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore.” (Re 18:21-22 NKJV)

So it was a judgment against Babylon.

Thew other thing that struck me from your post is that you did not mention the purpose of the instrumental music. Did you mean "acceptable for use in Christian worship," or "acceptable for people in general to perform or listen to, or maybe something else?
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Revelation 18:
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

What does this passage teach us about acceptable instrumental music baked goods and marriage?

Clearly John is secretly communicating to the CHURCH that we are to abstain from all BAKED GOODS [anything made from "flour" is EVIL] and we are to already be like the ANGELS [abandoning the worldly practice of "marriage"]. What else could it possibly mean! ;) :rolleyes:
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
The context is very specific:

“21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw [it] into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 “The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore.” (Re 18:21-22 NKJV)

So it was a judgment against Babylon.

Thew other thing that struck me from your post is that you did not mention the purpose of the instrumental music. Did you mean "acceptable for use in Christian worship," or "acceptable for people in general to perform or listen to, or maybe something else?
Yes, it was a judgment against Babylon. I intentionally left the nature of the acceptability unspecified.
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
Revelation 18:
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

What does this passage teach us about acceptable instrumental music baked goods and marriage?

Clearly John is secretly communicating to the CHURCH that we are to abstain from all BAKED GOODS [anything made from "flour" is EVIL] and we are to already be like the ANGELS [abandoning the worldly practice of "marriage"]. What else could it possibly mean! ;) :rolleyes:
Hmm. So, your approach is to insist that everything in the list that will be brought to a permanent end has to be of the same character--all have to be good things or all have to be bad things. Is that a correct understanding of your view?
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
The occasions of the 'voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters' are what's in view, not the machines themselves.

There will be no more occasion of celebration or revelry or triumph. A miserable existence indeed.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Hmm. So, your approach is to insist that everything in the list that will be brought to a permanent end has to be of the same character--all have to be good things or all have to be bad things. Is that a correct understanding of your view?
Not really ...

My "personal view" is that "Revelation" is apocryphal literature, and as such it employed vivid symbolism familiar to its immediate recipients to convey spiritual truths rather than simple historic predictions. In the case of Revelation, there is a God-breathed "double entente" of a message for those undergoing first century persecution to offer encouragement and hope that as terrible as things are (then), God is still in charge, the suffering will not last forever, and God and his Church will prevail over the powers of darkness. This would be of minimal value to us (like the census of Israel or lists of genealogies) but for the reality that EVERYONE in EVERY AGE goes through trouble and hard times. Therefore, the underlying SPIRITUAL TRUTHS are of vital importance and deep encouragement to Christians suffering every WHERE and WHEN.

The secret is to get our head out of our **** and stop trying to create timelines of future events that we have been told NOBODY (including Jesus and the Angels) know. THAT is not the "mystery" to be unraveled. Trusting in God when everything in life seems to indicate that the cause is hopeless: that is the lesson.

So when people seek to misuse Revelation to discuss "setting up kingdoms" or "rebuilding temples" or "ruling with Christ" or just building a YOKE of legalism about "good music and bad music" ... the appropriate response is sarcasm and "reducto ad absurdum".
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
Not really ...

My "personal view" is that "Revelation" is apocryphal literature, and as such it employed vivid symbolism familiar to its immediate recipients to convey spiritual truths rather than simple historic predictions. In the case of Revelation, there is a God-breathed "double entente" of a message for those undergoing first century persecution to offer encouragement and hope that as terrible as things are (then), God is still in charge, the suffering will not last forever, and God and his Church will prevail over the powers of darkness. This would be of minimal value to us (like the census of Israel or lists of genealogies) but for the reality that EVERYONE in EVERY AGE goes through trouble and hard times. Therefore, the underlying SPIRITUAL TRUTHS are of vital importance and deep encouragement to Christians suffering every WHERE and WHEN.

The secret is to get our head out of our **** and stop trying to create timelines of future events that we have been told NOBODY (including Jesus and the Angels) know. THAT is not the "mystery" to be unraveled. Trusting in God when everything in life seems to indicate that the cause is hopeless: that is the lesson.

So when people seek to misuse Revelation to discuss "setting up kingdoms" or "rebuilding temples" or "ruling with Christ" or just building a YOKE of legalism about "good music and bad music" ... the appropriate response is sarcasm and "reducto ad absurdum".
We have very different understandings of the book of Revelation. Trying to discuss anything with you about what the book says would be pointless because you impose an extrabiblical understanding on the book that is entirely unsupported by anything in Scripture itself.
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
The right way to interpret Revelation 18:21-24 is to let the text speak for itself. Paying attention fully to what God has actually explicitly said shows us that the permanent termination of the various, specified music makers of Babylon that is spoken of in the passage is a divine judgment that the Spirit explains as resulting from the occult wickedness of Babylon:

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Because the Spirit has made known that great city Babylon will be the cause of worldwide deception through her sorceries, we can be certain that Babylon herself will be a city permeated by such occult wickedness. Based on that certainty, we can certainly know that at least some of the music making of the music makers spoken of in 18:22 that God will bring to a permanent end will have been the making of occult instrumental music that was not, is not, and never will be acceptable to God.
 
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Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not really ...

My "personal view" is that "Revelation" is apocryphal literature, and as such it employed vivid symbolism familiar to its immediate recipients to convey spiritual truths rather than simple historic predictions. In the case of Revelation, there is a God-breathed "double entente" of a message for those undergoing first century persecution to offer encouragement and hope that as terrible as things are (then), God is still in charge, the suffering will not last forever, and God and his Church will prevail over the powers of darkness. This would be of minimal value to us (like the census of Israel or lists of genealogies) but for the reality that EVERYONE in EVERY AGE goes through trouble and hard times. Therefore, the underlying SPIRITUAL TRUTHS are of vital importance and deep encouragement to Christians suffering every WHERE and WHEN.

The secret is to get our head out of our **** and stop trying to create timelines of future events that we have been told NOBODY (including Jesus and the Angels) know. THAT is not the "mystery" to be unraveled. Trusting in God when everything in life seems to indicate that the cause is hopeless: that is the lesson.

So when people seek to misuse Revelation to discuss "setting up kingdoms" or "rebuilding temples" or "ruling with Christ" or just building a YOKE of legalism about "good music and bad music" ... the appropriate response is sarcasm and "reducto ad absurdum".
:D "reducto ad absurdum" Really?!?
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revelation 18:
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

What does this passage teach us about acceptable instrumental music baked goods and marriage?

Clearly John is secretly communicating to the CHURCH that we are to abstain from all BAKED GOODS [anything made from "flour" is EVIL] and we are to already be like the ANGELS [abandoning the worldly practice of "marriage"]. What else could it possibly mean! ;) :rolleyes:
No cannoli
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
The right way to interpret Revelation 18:21-24 is to let the text speak for itself. Paying attention fully to what God has actually explicitly said shows us that the permanent termination of the various, specified music makers of Babylon that is spoken of in the passage is a divine judgment that the Spirit explains as resulting from the occult wickedness of Babylon:

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Because the Spirit has made known that great city Babylon will be the cause of worldwide deception through her sorceries, we can be certain that Babylon herself will be a city permeated by such occult wickedness. Based on that certainty, we can certainly know that at least some of the music making of the music makers spoken of in 18:22 that God will bring to a permanent end will have been the making of occult instrumental music that was not, is not, and never will be acceptable to God.
Just like that occultic food processing, and occultic carpentry and stone masonry, and that occultic candlelight and occultic matrimony.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Rev 18:1-24 teaches us about the fall of Babylon.

The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters,
will never be heard in you again.
No workman of any trade
will ever be found in you again.
The sound of a millstone
will never be heard in you again.
The light of a lamp
will never shine in you again.
The voice of bridegroom and bride
will never be heard in you again.


Note the words of Rev 18:21

With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revelation 18:22 is the final reference in Scripture that speaks about instrumental music:

You're putting the em-fas-suss on the wrong sil-lah-bul.

It's the religion of the Jews, i.e., the Old Covenant, that God has abandoned that shall be 'no more forever'.

14 but their minds were hardened: for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed to them that it is done away in Christ. 2 Cor 3

..... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever..... Mt 21:19

21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18
 
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