This is one of the saddest views of scripture I have seen in a while. Such a low view of scripture.
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What does the RCC officially teach regarding Mary?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
This is one of the saddest views of scripture I have seen in a while. Such a low view of scripture.
Revmitchell. maybe the following will quell your opinion.
From the Catechism of The Catholic Church:
II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit." 69
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself." 70
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more." 71
107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures." 72
108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living." 73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures." 74
__________________
"Blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed"
From the Catechism of The Catholic Church:
II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit." 69
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself." 70
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more." 71
107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures." 72
108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living." 73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures." 74
__________________
"Blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed"
Revmitchell. maybe the following will quell your opinion.
From the Catechism of The Catholic Church:
II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit." 69
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself." 70
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more." 71
107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures." 72
108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living." 73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures." 74
__________________
"Blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed"
Our authority is the Word of God itself, the Bible, not the Catechism.
Our position is demonstrated and proven through God's Word not through the heretical "holy mother church," of which no such thing exists.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
lakeside, I did not wade through all the stuff uou posted but did you present a single verse of Scripture to support the Romanist teachings about Mary. If they cannot be supported by Scripture they are heretical, some are blasphemous!
Revmitchell. maybe the following will quell your opinion.
From the Catechism of The Catholic Church:
II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit." 69
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself." 70
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more." 71
107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures." 72
108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living." 73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures." 74
__________________
"Blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed"
BUT, just as with the JW/Mormon churches, the RCC claims that they alone have been granted form the Holy Spirit the true and rightful views on the doctrines contained in it, for if there is ever a conflic between the bible abd the RCC, you alwaus side with the view of the RCC, as every 'good catholic" needs to do also!
So in the final sense of the term, the Bible plays second fiddle to the errors of the church of rome i
And while mary in indeed blessed among Women, as chosen to God to give birth to jesus, she is NOT any of those titles given her by RCC, as she cannot mediate or intercede for sinners or saints, and is in heaven same as any other sinner, there due to jesus saving her from her sins!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Revmitchell. maybe the following will quell your opinion.
From the Catechism of The Catholic Church:
II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit." 69
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself." 70
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more." 71
107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures." 72
108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living." 73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures." 74
__________________
"Blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed"
It is certain that Roman Catholicism is not a religion of the Bible. It is a monstrous heresy created by the minds of the pope and the teaching magisterium! Nothing but unrestrained blasphemy straight out of the influence of Satan!
Simply consider the decadent opulence that surrounds the pope and Roman hierarchy compared to the poverty of the Lord Jesus Christ who said of Himself: Matthew 8:20. And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Consider also that Rome admits that not all popes were believers but infidels yet they still claim these men were the representative of Jesus Christ on earth. Nothing but unrestrained blasphemy straight out of the mind of Satan!
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One Baptism
Active Member
There are four church dogmas pertaining to Mary:
1. Mother of God (Theotokos). There is no suggestion that Mary preexisted God, indeed all Catholics agree she is a creature, not a god. However, she is the mother of the Son of God. Since the Son of God is God incarnate, Mary is the mother of God.
2. Immaculate conception. Mary was born without original sin and lived a sinless life. This was not necessary for Jesus to be born without original sin because the sin nature is inherited through the father. Rather, it was a singular favor given to Mary at the time of her conception in the womb of her mother.
3. Perpetual virgin.
4. The Assumption, meaning at her death (maybe just before, maybe after) Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven where she is queen of angels and saints.
There are many other things about Mary that are generally understood to be true but they are not official church dogma.
Personally I think that which has been given on both sides, is the perfect contrast between what is in Scripture, and what is not, and therefore the infinite difference in those who believe the "word of God" compared with those that believe the 'words/traditions of men'.Our authority is the Word of God itself, the Bible, not the Catechism.
Our position is demonstrated and proven through God's Word not through the heretical "holy mother church," of which no such thing exists.
Let's see them side by side:
Scripture (which is older and more primary in its source than anything provided by brother Lakeside):
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211737&postcount=3
Tradition and reasoning of men (earliest date cited (A.D. 377)):
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211798&postcount=13
Scripture (which is older and more primary in its source than anything provided by brother Lakeside):
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211744&postcount=4
Subpoint - http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211748&postcount=5
Tradition and reasoning of men (earliest date cited (A.D. 213)):
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211795&postcount=11
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211796&postcount=12
Scripture (which is older and more primary in its source than anything provided by brother Lakeside):
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211759&postcount=6
Subpoint - http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211767&postcount=7
Tradition and reasoning of men (earliest date cited (A.D. 180 & (ante A.D. 235))):
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211791&postcount=10
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211799&postcount=14
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211801&postcount=15
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211803&postcount=16
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211804&postcount=17
Scripture (which is older and more primary in its source than anything provided by brother Lakeside):
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211770&postcount=8
Subpoint (brief) - http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211775&postcount=9
Tradition and reasoning of men (earliest date cited (A.D. 324)):
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2211791&postcount=10
Truly what we have seen/witnessed, is the difference between day and night.
Why my Romanist brothers/sisters would not choose to follow after Christ Jesus in the "it is written" in the "Scriptures", only they themselves can answer, for ultimately it deals with matters of the heart of man.
One Baptism
Active Member
Brother lakeside, please consider with me, what is written:The only Judge is Jesus not you.
John 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Psalm 58:1 - [[To the chief Musician, Altaschith, Michtam of David.]] Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
Proverbs 31:9 - Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
Matthew 7:2 - For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 12:57 - Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
Acts 13:46 - Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
1 Corinthians 5:12 - For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1 Corinthians 6:4 - If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
1 Corinthians 6:5 - I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
1 Corinthians 10:15 - I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.
1 Corinthians 11:13 - Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
1 Corinthians 11:31 - For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1 Corinthians 14:29 - Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
A time is coming for us, God's remnant people to judge even angels and the world itself:
Daniel 7:22 - Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. [this passage speaks of several time frames, which may be discussed in future, but note that the judgment spoken of in it, refers to 1 Corinthians 6:2,3 and Revelation 20:4, etc]
1 Corinthians 6:2 - Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Corinthians 6:3 - Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
Revelation 20:4 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
What will be the standard of such Judgment at that time ["the day of the LORD"; 2 Peter 3:8] of Judgment?
John 12:48 - He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Therefore, it is written:
Isaiah 8:20 - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
1 Corinthians 14:32 - And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 - Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Acts 17:11- These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
One Baptism, I believe that the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of God, but I do not believe it is the sole rule for salvation. Not one of those previous verses that you posted say that either. Not One Verse or passage from the Bible say that it { the Holy Bible } is all that is necessary for Salvation, some indicate that i.e. { 2 Tim. 3:16 } say it is necessary{ and I agree } but it is not everything that is necessary for our Salvation, Not one, for instance 1st Century Christians, actually not any Christian until a protesting against God's Church in the 16TH Century believed in a sola Scriptura man-made concept for our Salvation.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Nope, nothing about the Catholic church only the word of God leads to faith (salvation)
Nope, nothing about the Catholic church only the word of God leads to faith (salvation)
Revmitchell,nothing about sola Scriptura only that the church has all authority and the final word { Matt. 18:15-18 ] and that the church is the strength and not the Holy Bible { 1 Tim.3: 15. } Jesus said church not Bible in { Matt 16: 18 }Doctrine, community sacred rite [ bread ] not Bible in { Acts 2: 32 ] Jesus loves His church [ nothing about Bible ] in { Eph.5: 25-26 } So where are all the verses that pertain to Jesus and His speaking about His Bible being more important than His church?
Revmitchell,nothing about sola Scriptura only that the church has all authority and the final word { Matt. 18:15-18 ] and that the church is the strength and not the Holy Bible { 1 Tim.3: 15. } Jesus said church not Bible in { Matt 16: 18 }Doctrine, community sacred rite [ bread ] not Bible in { Acts 2: 32 ] Jesus loves His church [ nothing about Bible ] in { Eph.5: 25-26 } So where are all the verses that pertain to Jesus and His speaking about His Bible being more important than His church?
None of those verses say any of that. None of this is true. I suggest you take a hermenuetics class so as to understand how to break down scripture better. Your attempt here is rather sophomoric.
One Baptism
Active Member
Excellent, and I would like to test that with you? Would you be willing?One Baptism, I believe that the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of God ...
Brother lakeside, you have a misunderstanding about the Scripture, please notice:... but I do not believe it is the sole rule for salvation.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. - John 5:39
Even the Holy Spirit, speaks what He hears, and testifies of Jesus Christ:
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: - John 15:26
As it is written:
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. - John 16:13
He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. - John 7:18
He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. - John 7:18
Thus Scripture speaks of two things, which are really 'one' [atonement], which are in perfect harmony, [1] The Law [aka the word of God], and the [2] Testimony [aka Prophets, or spirit of prophecy], notice:
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. - Isaiah 8:20
The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple. - Psalm 19:7
For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: - Psalm 78:5
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. - Isaiah 8:16
The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple. - Psalm 19:7
For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: - Psalm 78:5
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. - Isaiah 8:16
etc. A great deal more upon request, for they are the "two witnesses" of God.
Yes, there is a living testimony among God's people, but that testimony can never contradict the Law of God. For instance, in the days of Moses, God spoke and wrote the Ten Commandments [the Law], placed inside the Ark, and gave the Holy Spirit to Moses, and we wrote a living Testimony, which was laid up in [or to] the side of the Ark.
It is even found in Genesis with Adam if you look. Moreso, it is also found in the New Testament also. Paul quoted extensively from the Law, and Pauls testimony then was the living witness which is found to be in agreement with all of that which went before. Nothing is allowed to contradict the Ten Commandments, the very foundation. Please notice again:
...
John 12:48 - He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Therefore, it is written:
Isaiah 8:20 - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
1 Corinthians 14:32 - And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 - Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Acts 17:11- These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Notice that, Yes, Paul and others preached the living word, by the Holy Spirit, not only from Scripture itself, but also the present truth living witness, but please note, that all things, must always be in harmony with that which was written beforehand, even in accordance with the Holy Law of God itself. See Acts 17:11. Yes Paul preached, and they had to "search the Scriptures" to see "whether those things were so".
Roman Catholicism does not do this, but instead places Scripture on (supposedly, though it is not, being made subservient to) equal footing with "[T]radition" (RC), but moreso, the "[R]Church" is above both, since it claims to have authority to interpret both, and more specifically in Counsels, and moreso in the Papal See Himself. This is in reversal to the word of God.
Thus even Daniel [whose material had not yet been written in his day, and being given fresh at that time], had to be in harmony with Jeremiah [and Jeremiah with Isaiah, etc], with Isaiah, with Moses [and all the prophets, Ezekiel, etc], and most especially with the Ten Commandments.
The problem is, Roman Catholicism does not fit this criteria (though it claims to have/be the living testimony), since its materials are in either subtraction or addition to the words of God, the prophets, and even the Ten Commandments.
For instance, I have asked you, in charity, on several occasions, a very specific question:
I am hoping you might answer this yet.Jesus said:
John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
He just quoted from the Ten Commandments [Exodus 20:1-17]:
Exodus 20:6 - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Therefore, may I ask you, brother lakeside, do you keep those Commandments as cited therein, or another set which may be similar but not the same? please see, as a Roman Catholic, before answering:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm
Do you keep the Scriptural Ten Commandments (on Left) or the "traditional" on (far right)?
The two are not the same, and differ one from the other.
One Baptism
Active Member
Please see above response.... Not one of those previous verses that you posted say that either. ...
Please again see the above response and as well as:Not One Verse or passage from the Bible say that it { the Holy Bible } is all that is necessary for Salvation ...
And we are warned in Scripture about our correct use of Scripture, and that we are not to “wrest”, neither mishandle it deceitfully:
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:6
So also of the Ten Commandments...
“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” Deuteronomy 4:2
...and in Revelation again [which covers the "Everlasting Gospel" from Creation to Re-Creation, Beginning to End]...
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:” Revelation 22:18
“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:19
“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:19
For even Balaam knew better, for he wisely said:
“And Balaam answered and said unto the servants of Balak, If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God, to do less or more.” Numbers 22:18
“If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the commandment of the LORD, to do [either] good or bad of mine own mind; [but] what the LORD saith, that will I speak?” Numbers 24:13
“If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the commandment of the LORD, to do [either] good or bad of mine own mind; [but] what the LORD saith, that will I speak?” Numbers 24:13
You see, there is an example of one in the Bible which sought to destroy God's word:
And they went in to the king into the court, but they laid up the roll in the chamber of Elishama the scribe, and told all the words in the ears of the king. - Jeremiah 36:20
So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king. - Jeremiah 36:21
Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and [there was a fire] on the hearth burning before him. - Jeremiah 36:22
And it came to pass, [that] when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast [it] into the fire that [was] on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that [was] on the hearth. - Jeremiah 36:23
Yet they were not afraid, nor rent their garments, [neither] the king, nor any of his servants that heard all these words. - Jeremiah 36:24
Nevertheless Elnathan and Delaiah and Gemariah had made intercession to the king that he would not burn the roll: but he would not hear them. - Jeremiah 36:25
Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying, - Jeremiah 36:27
Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned. - Jeremiah 36:28
And thou shalt say to Jehoiakim king of Judah, Thus saith the LORD; Thou hast burned this roll, saying, Why hast thou written therein, saying, The king of Babylon shall certainly come and destroy this land, and shall cause to cease from thence man and beast? - Jeremiah 36:29
So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king. - Jeremiah 36:21
Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and [there was a fire] on the hearth burning before him. - Jeremiah 36:22
And it came to pass, [that] when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast [it] into the fire that [was] on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that [was] on the hearth. - Jeremiah 36:23
Yet they were not afraid, nor rent their garments, [neither] the king, nor any of his servants that heard all these words. - Jeremiah 36:24
Nevertheless Elnathan and Delaiah and Gemariah had made intercession to the king that he would not burn the roll: but he would not hear them. - Jeremiah 36:25
Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying, - Jeremiah 36:27
Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned. - Jeremiah 36:28
And thou shalt say to Jehoiakim king of Judah, Thus saith the LORD; Thou hast burned this roll, saying, Why hast thou written therein, saying, The king of Babylon shall certainly come and destroy this land, and shall cause to cease from thence man and beast? - Jeremiah 36:29
Notice Matthew 1:11:
And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: - Matthew 1:11
Notice who is missing? Jehoiakim... (for it was Jehoiakim that begat Jechonias, and Josias the father of Jehoiakim (2 Kings 23:34; Jeremiah 1:3, 22:18, 25:1, 26:1, 27:1, 35:1, 36:1,9, 45:1, 46:2) and was Jechonias' grandfather (1 Chronicles 3:16; Jeremiah 22:24, 24:1, 27:20, 28:4, 37:1; "Coniah" = "Jeconiah/s")), but why? For what he [under his supervision] did to the word of God... cutting it up into pieces and having it burned.
Please notice the context, for 2 Timothy 3:16 is not merely in isolation, nor void of all other instruction in regards to it:... , some indicate that i.e. { 2 Tim. 3:16 } say it is necessary{ and I agree } ...
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them]; - 2 Timothy 3:14
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. - 2 Timothy 3:15
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: - 2 Timothy 3:16
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Timothy 3:17
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. - 2 Timothy 3:15
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: - 2 Timothy 3:16
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Timothy 3:17
The "that" [ιναG2443 CONJ] is very important, for it gives the purpose/ reason for "All Scripture", which is to make the "man of God" "Perfect" [αρτιοςG739 A-NSM] even "thoroughly" [not merely, but means wholly "accomplished", or complete] unto every good work and which "are able to make thee wise unto salvation."
Nothing that Roman Catholicism has either added and/or subtracted throughout the millennia, can truly improve upon what was already given from Genesis to Malachi, neither from Matthew to Revelation.
Brother, seriously read those passages and examples again....but it is not everything that is necessary for our Salvation ...
One Baptism
Active Member
Roman Catholicism, always appealing to the (so-called) 'church fathers' (all whom disagreed with one another, Augustine an heretic, Aquinas refuting him, Origen a known gnostic mystic, etc, etc) and never really truly relying upon the word of God...... Not one, for instance 1st Century Christians, ...
Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away [αποστασιαG646 N-NSF; apostasia] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3
Act 20:28-30 KJV - [28] Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. [30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
2Co 11:13-15 KJV - [13] For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
2Th 2:1-14 KJV - [1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away [Apostasy] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? [6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be dammned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. [13] But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: [14] Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Ti 4:1-2 KJV - [1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
2Ti 3:1-8 KJV - [1] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. [2] For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. [6] For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, [7] Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. [8] Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Peter 3:16 KJV - [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Rev 2:20-23 KJV - [20] Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. [21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. [22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. [23] And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 17:1-6 KJV - [1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: [2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. [3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. [4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: [5] And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. [6] And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
2Co 11:13-15 KJV - [13] For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
2Th 2:1-14 KJV - [1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away [Apostasy] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? [6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be dammned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. [13] But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: [14] Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Ti 4:1-2 KJV - [1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
2Ti 3:1-8 KJV - [1] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. [2] For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. [6] For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, [7] Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. [8] Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Peter 3:16 KJV - [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Rev 2:20-23 KJV - [20] Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. [21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. [22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. [23] And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 17:1-6 KJV - [1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: [2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. [3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. [4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: [5] And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. [6] And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Please know your history a little better, for "reformation" was desired long before brothers Tyndale, or Martin Luther, or Erasmus, or Huss, or Jerome, or even Wycliffe...... actually not any Christian until a protesting against God's Church in the 16TH Century ...
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. - 1 Corinthians 15:31
God Himself through His prophets had from the beginning:
For I earnestly protested unto your fathers in the day [that] I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, [even] unto this day, rising early and protesting, saying, Obey my voice. - Jeremiah 11:7
Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. - 1 Samuel 8:9
And the king sent and called for Shimei, and said unto him, Did I not make thee to swear by the LORD, and protested unto thee, saying, Know for a certain, on the day thou goest out, and walkest abroad any whither, that thou shalt surely die? and thou saidst unto me, The word [that] I have heard [is] good. - 1 Kings 2:42
Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, [and by] all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments [and] my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets. - 2 Kings 17:13
And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying, - Zechariah 3:6
Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. - 1 Samuel 8:9
And the king sent and called for Shimei, and said unto him, Did I not make thee to swear by the LORD, and protested unto thee, saying, Know for a certain, on the day thou goest out, and walkest abroad any whither, that thou shalt surely die? and thou saidst unto me, The word [that] I have heard [is] good. - 1 Kings 2:42
Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, [and by] all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments [and] my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets. - 2 Kings 17:13
And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying, - Zechariah 3:6
etc, etc.
Protestantism against error and sin [1 John 3:4; Exodus 20:1-17] is Scriptural. Apostasy and sin is rebellion toward the Highest Rule.
I think you may have a misunderstanding of Sola Scriptura, for it includes therein more than the words in Scripture, it also includes words of the Apostles/Prophets sent [which were to always be in harmony with what went before, in direct atonement with the Ten Commandments], and Creation itself [the other general 'book' of God, nature].... believed in a sola Scriptura man-made concept for our Salvation.
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. - Psalm 138:2
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. - Isaiah 8:20
NUN. Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. - Psalm 119:105
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. - Isaiah 8:20
NUN. Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. - Psalm 119:105
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Revmitchell,nothing about sola Scriptura only that the church has all authority and the final word { Matt. 18:15-18 ] and that the church is the strength and not the Holy Bible { 1 Tim.3: 15. } Jesus said church not Bible in { Matt 16: 18 }Doctrine, community sacred rite [ bread ] not Bible in { Acts 2: 32 ] Jesus loves His church [ nothing about Bible ] in { Eph.5: 25-26 } So where are all the verses that pertain to Jesus and His speaking about His Bible being more important than His church?
You do realise though that the church Jesus spoke of was already existing from Pentacost forward, and that he was NOT speaking to the Church of Rome, but to his true church?
You do "realize" that the church Jesus spoke of was the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which later became known as the Roman Catholic Church?You do realise though that the church Jesus spoke of was already existing from Pentacost forward, and that he was NOT speaking to the Church of Rome, but to his true church?
You do "realize" that the church Jesus spoke of was the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which later became known as the Roman Catholic Church?
NO, for that church of jesus was built on Him alone, and the Teachings of His Apostles , and the OT canon alone, not additional heresies brought in by RCC!