Featured What does this scripture mean and how do you interpret it?

robycop3 · Nov 29, 2013

Jordan Kurecki said: ↑

Both the 1828 and 1975 Webster Dictionaries inform us that the word "kill" means, "to deprive of life." The word "murder" means, "the crime of unlawfully killing a person." Both can be used interchangeably, in that it is impossible to murder a person without killing them. However, there are those who still object to the phrase, "thou shalt not kill" insisting that it must be "you shall not murder." Therefore, so they state, modern versions have clarified the difference for us. But have they really?

The English word "kill" means to deprive of life. The word "murder" means to unlawfully kill a person." Therefore, by English definitions, the word murder involves an unlawful act. However, if it is lawful it would not be murder to deprive someone of life. With this in mind, I certainly think the phrase "thou shalt not kill" is much better. For this simple reason, abortion is the law of the land. It is not illegal for a doctor to deprive a living child of its life if the mother consents to this act. I can almost hear the liberal theologian justifying abortion on the grounds that it is not murder because it is not unlawful. The same may be said of euthanasia. While it is not the law of our land yet, it is the law of the land in many countries and it not an unlawful act in those nations. Nevertheless, both acts deprive a living being of their life. Both acts KILL. With this in mind, which do you think is really the better translation?
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Not long ago, I KILLED a coyote. Now, did I MURDER it?

Again, this mastranslation in Ex. 20;13 has made it the MOST-MISUSED verse in Scripture, used by pacifists and anti-death-penalty wing nuts.

You gave the definitions of kill and murder yourself. Now, while one cannot commit murder without killing, one can certainly kill without murdering. So, they're NOT always synonyms.

The misuse of "Thou shalt not KILL speax for itself in all our news media.

robycop3 · Nov 29, 2013

Jordan Kurecki said: ↑

how many evils are included in the phrase "ALL kinds" or "ALL sorts of evil"? Well, it seems obvious that this would include ALL kinds of evil, not "many kinds" or "lots of different sorts", or "various types of evil". If you going to criticize the King James reading because the literal meaning doesn't make sense to you, then to be fair, we would have to conclude that neither does the literal sense of your favorite versions. "All kinds of evil" still means ALL evil, and your modern versions are right back to meaning the very thing you criticized. How can the love of money be A root (and there necessarily must be other roots too that do the same thing) of ALL kinds of evil? This would also include the fall of man, rape, hatred, pride, and sexual lust.

ALL EVIL is not referring to every kind of evil or sin but rather to a state of evil without mixture of any good. The word evil here denotes the consequences of sin, like unrest of the soul, a guilty conscience, a lack of contentment and other calamities both internal and external.

Notice the context: v.2 "And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren: but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. THESE THINGS TEACH AND EXHORT. 3 If any man TEACH OTHERWISE, and consent not to the wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, AND TO THE DOCTRINE WHICH IS ACCORDING TO GODLINESS; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, surmisings. 5 PERVERSE DISPUTINGS of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, SUPPOSING THAT GAIN IS GODLINESS:from such withdraw thyself. 6 But GODLINESS WITH CONTENTMENT is GREAT GAIN. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that be rich FALL INTO TEMPTATION and snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, THEY HAVE ERRED FROM THE FAITH, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

The context is clear...it's about teaching false doctrines for monetary gain.

This person falls into a state of 'all evil' with no mixture of anything good in his life. He is drowned in destruction and perdition by many foolish and hurtful lusts. He is pierced through with many sorrows. There is no consciousness of anything good in this persons life and all he feels and experiences is a state of evil. The immediate context of 1 Timothy 6 is that of a Christian's attitude toward money, and in this context the root of all evil is the love of money. It is not speaking about the origin of sins in general.

Compare the following verses to see that the phrase 'all evil' does not refer to every imaginable form of evil or sin, but rather to a state of being which consists of unmixed evil.

In Joshua 23:15 Joshua tells the children of Israel: "Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you."

Likewise in Proverbs 5:14 "I was almost in ALL EVIL in the midst of the congregation and assembly." And in Genesis 48:16 Jacob testifies: "The Angel which redeemed me from ALL EVIL, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them."

In James 3:16 we are told: "For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work." Are we to conclude from this verse that where there is envy and strife, there also exist the fall of man, rape, incest, greed and murder? No, rather the presence of these two sins contaminate and affect everything else going on around them, and result in a state of evil.

The experience of most Christians is living in a state of blessings of good along with the presence of evil or difficulties in our lives. But the Christian who pursues the love of money will soon find himself in a state of only evil, sorrows and hurtful lusts and will lose the sense of God's presence and approval in his life. He has erred from the faith. I understand this to be the true sense of the passage as is found in the King James Bible, and many others as well.

Apparently even back in the days of John Calvin some were criticizing the reading of "the root of all evil". John Calvin translated it as it stands in the King James Bible and then makes these comments: "For the root of all evils is avarice" There is no necessity for being too scrupulous in comparing other vices with this. It is certain that ambition and pride often produce worse fruits than covetousness does; and yet ambition does not proceed from covetousness. The same thing may be said of the sins forbidden by the seventh commandment. But Paul’s intention was not to include under covetousness every kind of vices that can be named. What then? He simply meant, that innumerable evils arise from it; just as we are in the habit of saying, when we speak of discord, or gluttony, or drunkenness, or any other vice of that kind, that there is no evil which it does not produce. And, indeed, we may most truly affirm, as to the base desire of gain, that there is no kind of evils that is not copiously produced by it every day; such as innumerable frauds, falsehoods, perjury, cheating, robbery, cruelty, corruption in judicature, quarrels, hatred, poisonings, murders; and, in short, almost every sort of crime. Statements of this nature occur everywhere in heathen writers; and, therefore, it is improper that those persons who would applaud Horace or Ovid, when speaking in that manner, should complain of Paul as having used extravagant language."
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Scripture shapes reality, not vice versa. And we see many evils committed for purposes other than lova $$. Again, did Lanza shoot up that elementary school & kill himself for lova money? How about the diaper-head suicide bombers? How about rapists? how about most serial killers? How about devil-worshippers?

Yes, lova money is A root of all sortsa evils, but certainly NOT THE root of ALL evils! REALITY proves the MODERN rendering of 1 Tim. 16:10 correct. All your arguments are in vain against that FACT.

The KJV's rendering remains a booboo.

kyredneck · Nov 29, 2013

16 There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him:
17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood;
18 A heart that deviseth wicked purposes, Feet that are swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that uttereth lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren. Pro 6

The scriptures are pretty much self interpreting if allowed to do so. IMO:

'Thou shalt not kill' means simply 'Thou shalt not shed innocent blood'.

Yeshua1 · Nov 29, 2013

robycop3 said: ↑

Not long ago, I KILLED a coyote. Now, did I MURDER it?

Again, this mastranslation in Ex. 20;13 has made it the MOST-MISUSED verse in Scripture, used by pacifists and anti-death-penalty wing nuts.

You gave the definitions of kill and murder yourself. Now, while one cannot commit murder without killing, one can certainly kill without murdering. So, they're NOT always synonyms.

The misuse of "Thou shalt not KILL speax for itself in all our news media.
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God Himself killed all those Egyptians following after Moses and Isreal in Red Sea, was that murder?

Amazing how many hoops some here will jump through to try to keep the Kjv a "perfect translation!

robycop3 · Nov 30, 2013

kyredneck said: ↑

16 There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him:
17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood;
18 A heart that deviseth wicked purposes, Feet that are swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that uttereth lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren. Pro 6
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Those who made the KJVO myth uttered lies & sowed discord.

The scriptures are pretty much self interpreting if allowed to do so. IMO:

'Thou shalt not kill' means simply 'Thou shalt not shed innocent blood'.
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Please tell that to the gang of loonies who stood outside Lucasville State Prison, about 55 miles from my home in Southeast Ohio, protesting an execution that took place there.

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