What does your vote mean?

[Twizzler]

Only coaches should call me Wade, you can just call me Matt .

My bad... sorry.

I understand that it is possible for them to divorce the issue, and that's the problem! The issue of murdering children should never be one we over look. it may not make them evil, but it means they support evil.

Unfortunately they don't see themselves as supporting evil in this scenario, Matt... they TRULY think they are GOOD people and have the wool pulled over their eyes. My whole point is that a LOT of liberals, some of which are christians have rationalized to the breaking point. In THEIR MINDS they are good and thoughtful people, trying to do the greater good and we on the right are throwing darts at their party balloons and they get upset when we do that. It's something that we, as the conservative right need to be able to address without going off the deep end and driving them further and further away from Christ.

Instead of worrying so much about the jots and tittles of today's world, we should be more worried about loving our neighbor and furthering the Kingdom of God.

In my mind it's kind of like being a missionary to an island of cannibals... I want to preach the word and proclaim the promises of Christ without getting eaten by those I'm carrying the word to. I wouldn't come right out and tell them that they shouldn't be cannibals and try to force them to stop... Hopefully I'd teach them how to read, put the word of God in their hands and eventually they would learn for themselves that cannibalism was bad.

We should be praying for our liberal brothers and asking them to spend time in the word to get their answers, but first and most important is making sure they can 'read' the Word of God by being a true christian.

 

[alatide]

Alatide wanted an answer to this queston, but didn't have the guts to post it.

No I didn't because as I told you before you're asking the wrong question. Please don't misrepresent my statements or intent. This survey is of no value.

 

[alatide]

My bad... sorry.

Unfortunately they don't see themselves as supporting evil in this scenario, Matt... they TRULY think they are GOOD people and have the wool pulled over their eyes. My whole point is that a LOT of liberals, some of which are christians have rationalized to the breaking point. In THEIR MINDS they are good and thoughtful people, trying to do the greater good and we on the right are throwing darts at their party balloons and they get upset when we do that. It's something that we, as the conservative right need to be able to address without going off the deep end and driving them further and further away from Christ.

Instead of worrying so much about the jots and tittles of today's world, we should be more worried about loving our neighbor and furthering the Kingdom of God.

In my mind it's kind of like being a missionary to an island of cannibals... I want to preach the word and proclaim the promises of Christ without getting eaten by those I'm carrying the word to. I wouldn't come right out and tell them that they shouldn't be cannibals and try to force them to stop... Hopefully I'd teach them how to read, put the word of God in their hands and eventually they would learn for themselves that cannibalism was bad.

We should be praying for our liberal brothers and asking them to spend time in the word to get their answers, but first and most important is making sure they can 'read' the Word of God by being a true christian.

Most conservatives proclaiming Christ are Pharisees. They care more about politics than they care about Jesus.

 

[matt wade]

Most conservatives proclaiming Christ are Pharisees. They care more about politics than they care about Jesus.

Big words from the troll that, in the previous post, said, "Please don't misrepresent my statements or intent."

 

[billwald]

Of course you have a choice to quit paying taxes. Be honest. Most don't have the guts to quit paying taxes. Talk is cheap but that's all most of us have the guts to do . . . is that why westerners hate Moslem patriots whom we call terrorists? They have the guts to put their lives on the line?

Was the bombing of Dresden less of a terrorist act than blowing ones self up with a truck bomb?

 

[Revmitchell]

Of course you have a choice to quit paying taxes. Be honest. Most don't have the guts to quit paying taxes. Talk is cheap but that's all most of us have the guts to do . . . is that why westerners hate Moslem patriots whom we call terrorists? They have the guts to put their lives on the line?

Was the bombing of Dresden less of a terrorist act than blowing ones self up with a truck bomb?

What a nutcase

 

[targus]

What a nutcase

I know, but don't you just love it?

It really makes me feel so good about being normal. :laugh:

 

[Twizzler]

Big words from the troll that, in the previous post, said, "Please don't misrepresent my statements or intent."

Personally I don't think Alatide misrepresented my words at all here, Matt... I think he was basically agreeing with what I had to say. Am I wrong, Alatide?

 

[Twizzler]

What a nutcase

I concur, Rev. Wow. Are you lifting Osama up on a pedastal now, Bill? and Hitler too? Your logic is just... hmm... it's just... OUT THERE. :tonofbricks:

 

[matt wade]

Personally I don't think Alatide misrepresented my words at all here, Matt... I think he was basically agreeing with what I had to say. Am I wrong, Alatide?

I wasn't implying that he misrepresented your words. I was saying that he mischaracterizes people and their intent. He is calling most conservative, that claim to be Christians, pharisees and claiming that they care more about politics than Jesus. Do you agree with that?

 

[Winman]

I'm going to pick on you here, Winman... I apologize ahead of time.

Sorry to be picking nits here... but the question was 'Do you believe that, by voting for Obama, a person is also supporting abortion?' not
'Do you believe that, by voting for Obama, YOU are also supporting abortion?'

To answer the original question is to offer one's opinion on the matter but it doesn't take into account that someone CAN support Obama but abhor abortion. (To take it even further I would speculate that even if McCain would have won the election he would not have gotten rid of abortion, so one could use the left-handed argument that voting for McCain was a vote for abortion as well.)

Of course I think that argument is totally absurd, but that's a way it could be turned around.

Personally the abortion issue is very important to me and kept me from voting for BHO, but I am not so narrow-minded as to think that every single person who voted for BHO is a supporter of abortion. That would be like saying that every single person who voted Republican is pro death penalty, which to be quite truthful, I am on the fence about.

A better question would be 'Do you believe that OTHER people are capable of opposing abortion while still voting for BHO?'

Yes, I believe by voting for Obama a person is supporting abortion. Obama was very open of his support for abortion. He was very adamant about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__ctD48nfQ

You say you abhor abortion, then why would you vote for someone who promised to promote it?

I personally do not believe anyone who truly is against abortion could vote for someone who openly supports it. I have always been a Republican, but there have been several elections where I did not vote for a Republican because he or she was pro-abortion. I have voted for candidates in the Concerned Citizens Party in my state, knowing they had little chance to win, but voted for them because they were pro-life.

 

[THEOLDMAN]

What a nutcase

The pot just called the kettle black.

 

[rbell]

Of course you have a choice to quit paying taxes. Be honest. Most don't have the guts to quit paying taxes. Talk is cheap but that's all most of us have the guts to do . . . is that why westerners hate Moslem patriots whom we call terrorists? They have the guts to put their lives on the line?

Was the bombing of Dresden less of a terrorist act than blowing ones self up with a truck bomb?

Wow...someone who can't tell a patriot from an Islamic terrorist...

That's pretty sad right there. Scary, too.

So share with the class, Billwald, about your admiration of muslim terrorists...

 

[BigBossman]

Then why even have this poll, Rev?

I respectfully disagree with you here, Rev... I understand your use of the term 'support' to be to willinging uphold a position. If we had to agree and support every position of a candidate before we could vote for them, then we wouldn't be voting very much as there's VERY few people that would see eye to eye on every single issue.

I believe that other people that voted for Obama can be against Abortion.

The whole idea is to find your candidate. While I believe that there's no such thing as the perfect candidate, I believe that it is the job of the voter to reasearch where each candidate stands on the issues. I'm not just talking about what they say, but their actions (assuming they have had political experience).

I didn't like Bush, because I knew he wasn't the conservative that people tried to make him out to be. That didn't mean I was going to vote for Al Gore or John Kerry. I decided to find out what the third parties had to offer. After hearing of Pat Buchanan's departure from the Republican Party, I decided to vote for him in 2000. In 2004, I had the same problem. There was a moderate & a liberal running for election. I had to find another third party candidate who was a true conservative. So I voted for Mike Peroutka of the Constitution Party. I did the same thing in 2008. I voted for Alan Keyes.

People have to do more than just "get out & vote". They need to vote responsibly. People need to take voting more seriously & know who they are voting for. They need to know what they are saying when they make a decision on who they support. When you support a candidate, you are essentially coming out in support of their efforts.

 

[Twizzler]

People have to do more than just "get out & vote". They need to vote responsibly. People need to take voting more seriously & know who they are voting for. They need to know what they are saying when they make a decision on who they support. When you support a candidate, you are essentially coming out in support of their efforts.

I agree with you for the most-part here, BBM... BUT... when we're up against such a vast group of folks who are casting their vote based only on who makes them feel good, who speaks well, on the line "HOPE & CHANGE" without backing it up with WHAT that hope and change really is... then we've got to look at the ENTIRE picture.

How about this scenario... you have Candidate "A" who totally supports abortion... Candidate "B" who was against abortion except in the cases of rape and when there was a danger to the mother, and Candidate "C" who totally opposed abortion. Candidates A & B are from the major partys and Candidate C is an independent, whom you are sure is the RIGHT one to vote for.

The day of the election, you see that the polls (all of them) show Candidate A with 47% support, Candidate B with 43% support and Candidate C with 8% support and a few stragglers raking up the final 2%. What are you going to do here? YOU can swing the vote if you vote for Candidate B, he'll WIN. If you vote for Candidate 'C' then Candidate 'A' will win.

You KNOW that if you vote for Candidate 'C' that then Candidate 'A' will most likely win and you KNOW that if you vote for Candidate 'B' that he will then most likely win.

I would argue that with this knowledge you are, in the end, casting your vote for Candidate 'A'... the abortion supporter by throwing it away on Candidate 'C'. That's how Slick Willy got into office.

 

[Twizzler]

You may as well just abstain from any voting if you're going to vote for a third party. You know you're going to lose and rather than wade in and getting your hands dirty to try to make things RIGHT, you'd rather wallow in utter defeat by voting for a known loser and then you can have your clear conscience and argue to your heart's content.

 

[Revmitchell]

You may as well just abstain from any voting if you're going to vote for a third party. You know you're going to lose and rather than wade in and getting your hands dirty to try to make things RIGHT, you'd rather wallow in utter defeat by voting for a known loser and then you can have your clear conscience and argue to your heart's content.

Or you can makeup idiotic stuff like this to soothe your conscience.

 

[KenH]

You may as well just abstain from any voting if you're going to vote for a third party.

That statement couldn't be more wrong. I voted the winner of the past three presidential elections in order to be "relevant" and have nothing to show for it. Phooey on being "relevant" in voting. I have learned the hard lesson that one should vote based on one's beliefs, not on being "relevant".

 

[KenH]

That's how Slick Willy got into office.

Some research will show that is not true.

 

[BigBossman]

I agree with you for the most-part here, BBM... BUT... when we're up against such a vast group of folks who are casting their vote based only on who makes them feel good, who speaks well, on the line "HOPE & CHANGE" without backing it up with WHAT that hope and change really is... then we've got to look at the ENTIRE picture.

How about this scenario... you have Candidate "A" who totally supports abortion... Candidate "B" who was against abortion except in the cases of rape and when there was a danger to the mother, and Candidate "C" who totally opposed abortion. Candidates A & B are from the major partys and Candidate C is an independent, whom you are sure is the RIGHT one to vote for.

The day of the election, you see that the polls (all of them) show Candidate A with 47% support, Candidate B with 43% support and Candidate C with 8% support and a few stragglers raking up the final 2%. What are you going to do here? YOU can swing the vote if you vote for Candidate B, he'll WIN. If you vote for Candidate 'C' then Candidate 'A' will win.

You KNOW that if you vote for Candidate 'C' that then Candidate 'A' will most likely win and you KNOW that if you vote for Candidate 'B' that he will then most likely win.

I would argue that with this knowledge you are, in the end, casting your vote for Candidate 'A'... the abortion supporter by throwing it away on Candidate 'C'. That's how Slick Willy got into office.

I used to think like that. In 1996, which was the first presidential election I voted in, it was Bob Dole vs. Bill Clinton vs. Ross Perot. I voted for Bob Dole because I knew he would get more votes. I didn't want Bill Clinton in office. I was considering voting for Ross Perot. I compromised my vote simply because I wanted Bill Clinton out of office. I vowed to never to that again. My grandfather & uncle both chewed me out because I supported non-Republicans. I don't let that stop me.

I'm not saying I won't ever support a Republican ever again. I believe that there are Republicans still worth voting for. The problem is the media completely ignores those that are truly conservative. Alan Keyes in 2008 was never invited to the debates. Tom Tancredo who was a respectable candidate was only given a few questions to answer. Anytime he went over his alloted time, the moderators would cut him off completely, but whenever, Giuliani, McCain, or Romney went beyond their time, they wouldn't cut them off. They would just say, "Thank You" very silently & let them continue.

The other area I wanted to address was the polls. I believe that polls near election time are designed to sway voters into thinking that it doesn't matter who they vote for. Next time you see a poll done by any national news network, look at the percentages. They very rarely ever add up 100%. Whenever you take a poll, for it to be legit, it always has to add up to 100% everytime. Polls can also be misleading. In 2000, USA Today did a poll talking about the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy that Bill Clinton started. Bush & Gore were debating open homosexuality in the military. The poll question was, "Do you favor "Don't ask, Don't tell?" Being that I never supported it to begin with, I would have answered "no". To say that would mean that I supported Al Gore's open homosexuality view. If I said "Yes", it would be viewed that I believe homosexuals should be allowed in the military. Polls can be very misleading. I don't trust them.