What does....

[showard93]

Originally posted by Butterflies4mami:
I am not sure of the not preaching to nonwhite congregants issue. I never heard of that before... and wouldn't agree in that. I believe he was one of those preachers who goes into ( wherever he has to) to win the lost. Anyway, I would like to hear exactly what he said for myself before I would make a judgement on the man based on one persons statement! I'll give him the benefit of a doubt until proof of otherwise.
In Christ,
Peggy
Is.6:8

Very Well said Peggy!!!!

 

[Ransom]

showard93 said:

I have said this before but I wonder how we could all handle the preaching that Christ done. Do you think he was easy and never was hard in the pulpit.

I'll bet Jesus was "hard in the pulpit" without making fun of Mexicans, telling people to throw their Bibles in the trash if they weren't the KJV, screaming like a hysterical woman, and generally bringing reproach on his own name.

I wish I had a buck for every time someone tried to justify the bombast of their favourite "preacher" by comparing him to Jesus, and another buck for every time someone tried to equate "hard preaching" with bluster.

 

[TC]

Why all the talk about races? The human genome project, for whatever you may think of it, has proved that there is only one race - the HUMAN race.

Cultural differences are actually very minor. When all the outer ornaments are stripped off, the core is all the same. I've been to other parts of the world. Music or dress or customs or whatever are different, but the basic underlying things are the same. Most or all such arguements can be eliminated by starting with the similarities and going outward from there.

 

[saul^paul]

Matter of fact while we are on the Phil Kidd subject I remember him signing my bible at one of his meetings I attended in Florida. I remember feeling awkward from some of the things he said but I myself was used to hearing racial statements from the pulpit. Anyway I also remember the theology behind it Gen9:22-27 "Ham and the curse" As if Blacks are a cursed people.
I wonder what Phil Kidd believes about Gen9:22-27

I myself am from a semi-racial home I remember growing up when my dad got realy upset when I brought a black friend home from school and he told me never to bring black person into his house again. In general I think black/white racism is still something that is hammered into some of our culture and should be dealt with on both sides.

 

[Pastor KevinR]

Ransom makes some interesting points...which reminded me that Jesus sat down while He delivered His sermon on the mount. How many of us IFB Pastors would do this, not being disabled?

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Preacher Nathan Knight:
I dont like him either. I just wondered what everyone else thought. He finally got kicked out of most og the Independent Fundamental Preacher' Fellowships. Even Sammy Allen rebuked him at one his camp meetings. There were some black people attending the service and Phil Kidd stood up and told them to leave b/c he only preached to white people. When he said that Sammy Allen told all the preachers to escort him out, he didnt even get to preach.

Some pretty hard things have been said about Phil Kidd on this thread. Whether you like him or not is immaterial to some of the accusations, such as the one above, of the man and his preaching. Everyone deserves a fair shake which Phil Kidd, IMO, has not received. Furthermore, the Biblical principle of not receiving an accusation against an elder has been thoroughly trampled upon in this thread. Obviously, there is more heat than light. Now is the time to call the posters to account.

Since reading the preceding post, I have researched the matter for myself. With the information that I have, the preceding accusation against Phil Kidd is patently false, a vicious rumor, and a lie! If so, then a retraction and an apology for maligning a man are in order. I have confirmed that Phil Kidd DOES IN FACT preach to black people and shows the proper courtesy and respect toward them. Furthermore, he has upon occasion berated and challenged white folks because they do not show the same fervency as their black brethren. He has called individual black folks "my black brother." On the other hand, Kidd has challenged the black people in his audiences because they do not show greater missionary zeal for blacks in Africa. It is simply his blunt, confrontational style.

To the best of knowledge, Phil Kidd is opposed to miscegenation, the intermarriage of the races. However, it is stretching the truth into a lie to accuse him of blatant racism. If you care to study church history, you will find, no doubt, that such stalwarts of the Reformed faith as Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, et. al. were opposed to miscegenation. Furthermore, great Baptists leaders such Basil Manly, John Broadus, James P. Boyce, et. al. were also against racial intermarriage. So, do we vilify Phil Kidd for holding a view that was also held by great men whom we revere?

The gauntlet has been thrown. I challenge the poster to either support his allegation with verifiable data or be a man and withdraw the charge. An apology would be in order. Several Biblical principles are at stake here:
1. God forbids accepting an allegation against an elder (i.e. a preacher) without the required witnesses. The Scripture implies that these are eyewitnesses, not hearsay evidence. After all, hearsay is not admissible even in civil or criminal courts. God's people should hold an even higher standard.
2. Phil Kidd has been criticized for preaching against things for which he supposedly has no Scriptural basis, yet no one has demonstrated by Scripture that he is in error for the things that he preaches. If Phil Kidd must support his pontifications by Scripture, then it follows that his critics must base their criticism of him upon Scripture. What is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander. Otherwise, it's simply opinion and like or dislike. As Billy S. said, "Full of sound and fury signifying nothing . . . ." (You know the rest.)
3. Finally, God asks: "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant?" Each servant is accountable to his own master, not everyone else. I don't like the way that many employees work for their employer, but it is none of my business. Only my own employees are responsible to me. So, who are we to judge Phil Kidd? Let God judge him for reward or chastening. After all, God is in a much better position to judge—He knows the heart!

IT IS TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

Thanks for taking the time to read and consider these poor, rambling comments.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by showard93:
I want to give a great big

to Preacher Kidd and say that I am so glad there are still men who don't care about money or popularity but are more concerned about peoples souls.

You forgot to mention that he is only interested in the white mans soul. He isn't really. He is a false teacher in need of Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]Before we judge other people, we ought first to be sure that we are acting and living Biblically. Christ (Matthew 7:1-6) warned:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

I ask you a Scriptural question (Romans 14:4): "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."

Sir, you are wrong in your conclusion because you have bad data. Phil Kidd DOES PREACH to black folks. He fellowships with them and calls them "my black brother." You have judged the man's thoughts which you cannot know. Only God knows the heart. Remember that man looks on the outside but God sees the heart. We cannot know the thoughts and intent but God does. Furthermore, you have judged Phil Kidd's salvation! God forbid! Shame on you. This presumptive sin of the worst sort! God has not given us this perogative. Who are you to assume God's role in judgment? James (James 4:11-12)wrote: "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Beware! According the above quoted Scripture, God will judge you the same way that you have judged Phil Kidd. I seriously ask you to consider your words, repent, and seek God's forgiveness.

 

[timothy 1769]

Amen paidagogos!

My only concern is if he preaches his opinions as clear scriptural teaching when it's not.

 

[showard93]

Originally posted by paidagogos:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Preacher Nathan Knight:
I dont like him either. I just wondered what everyone else thought. He finally got kicked out of most og the Independent Fundamental Preacher' Fellowships. Even Sammy Allen rebuked him at one his camp meetings. There were some black people attending the service and Phil Kidd stood up and told them to leave b/c he only preached to white people. When he said that Sammy Allen told all the preachers to escort him out, he didnt even get to preach.

Some pretty hard things have been said about Phil Kidd on this thread. Whether you like him or not is immaterial to some of the accusations, such as the one above, of the man and his preaching. Everyone deserves a fair shake which Phil Kidd, IMO, has not received. Furthermore, the Biblical principle of not receiving an accusation against an elder has been thoroughly trampled upon in this thread. Obviously, there is more heat than light. Now is the time to call the posters to account.

Since reading the preceding post, I have researched the matter for myself. With the information that I have, the preceding accusation against Phil Kidd is patently false, a vicious rumor, and a lie! If so, then a retraction and an apology for maligning a man are in order. I have confirmed that Phil Kidd DOES IN FACT preach to black people and shows the proper courtesy and respect toward them. Furthermore, he has upon occasion berated and challenged white folks because they do not show the same fervency as their black brethren. He has called individual black folks "my black brother." On the other hand, Kidd has challenged the black people in his audiences because they do not show greater missionary zeal for blacks in Africa. It is simply his blunt, confrontational style.

To the best of knowledge, Phil Kidd is opposed to miscegenation, the intermarriage of the races. However, it is stretching the truth into a lie to accuse him of blatant racism. If you care to study church history, you will find, no doubt, that such stalwarts of the Reformed faith as Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, et. al. were opposed to miscegenation. Furthermore, great Baptists leaders such Basil Manly, John Broadus, James P. Boyce, et. al. were also against racial intermarriage. So, do we vilify Phil Kidd for holding a view that was also held by great men whom we revere?

The gauntlet has been thrown. I challenge the poster to either support his allegation with verifiable data or be a man and withdraw the charge. An apology would be in order. Several Biblical principles are at stake here:
1. God forbids accepting an allegation against an elder (i.e. a preacher) without the required witnesses. The Scripture implies that these are eyewitnesses, not hearsay evidence. After all, hearsay is not admissible even in civil or criminal courts. God's people should hold an even higher standard.
2. Phil Kidd has been criticized for preaching against things for which he supposedly has no Scriptural basis, yet no one has demonstrated by Scripture that he is in error for the things that he preaches. If Phil Kidd must support his pontifications by Scripture, then it follows that his critics must base their criticism of him upon Scripture. What is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander. Otherwise, it's simply opinion and like or dislike. As Billy S. said, "Full of sound and fury signifying nothing . . . ." (You know the rest.)
3. Finally, God asks: "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant?" Each servant is accountable to his own master, not everyone else. I don't like the way that many employees work for their employer, but it is none of my business. Only my own employees are responsible to me. So, who are we to judge Phil Kidd? Let God judge him for reward or chastening. After all, God is in a much better position to judge—He knows the heart!

IT IS TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

Thanks for taking the time to read and consider these poor, rambling comments. </font>[/QUOTE]Amen Brother you took the words right out of my mouth!!!

 

[Precepts]

If I were a prophet such as Elijah or Daniel of the Old Testament, my "vision" would read as follows:

I see goats wandering amongst the sheep and intermingled that other sheep cannot see them, but I am a shepherd and as a watchman on the wall.

I also see the wolves in sheep's clothing and am poised to use the sword, the sling, or the axe used to fell beams to prevent destruction from coming to the sheep.

I am new to BB and I cannot believe this has been allowed in a supposedly Christian, much less Baptist discussion board.

I know Brother Kidd personally. I also am used to seeing the unconverted make attacks on his person, yet they never have stopped long enough to talk with the man. I know he's controversial in his preaching, but that is only a controversy to those who are guilty of what is preached against.

Out of the Bible in his preaching? YOU"RE CRAZY!!
He's in the Bible is what you're problem is!

I will also add that some of you who've made derogatory statements about the man have lost all my respect until you're man enough to publickly retract your statements and appologize for impersonating a Christian!

If you don't know Brother Kidd, then shut-up!

Brother Steve, I see why you made the statement at Pleasant View that BB needs more like us in here, this place is full of hellbent, bitter Christians, from my short amount of time here. Now that is NOT the case with the majority, there are many in here with a genuine love for God and His people, having a sweet and compassionate spirit about them, just like Brother Kidd has by the way!

Bet yall who down the man didn't expect anyone to say that, now did ya? The reason you didn't is you DO NOT KNOW HIM!

I have read this entire thread and those of you who have made accusation and formed an opinion based on the gossip that trashes this thread make me SICK!

You may have heard Brother Kidd make some pretty bold and outlandish statements, but the reason you have yet to understand the man is you are dull of hearing. You've only pulled out what you wanted and overlooked the rest.

When you take something he's said , or anyone else has said, other than the way they meant it, you're taking it against their will, That's STEALING!

I'm so glad so many of you go contrary to what the Scripture teaches, it just confirms in my heart that I am saved! saved! saved!

Man I admit, many IFB's are pretty mean sometimes, but I 've seen them REPENT! and get right with God and man. But I see an animal of a different color in this thread, thank you for showing your true colors guys, I'll mark the ones who fail of the grace of God and allow the root of bitterness to continue defiling so many.

A special note the the Lord's Heritage; Flee the hireling, before he flees you and leaves you open game for the ravening wolves! Looks as if some are inviting them!

Yours Truly,

Brother Ricky Underwood

 

[Ransom]

Pastor KevinR said:

Ransom makes some interesting points...which reminded me that Jesus sat down while He delivered His sermon on the mount.

That's just a matter of custom. The standard rabbinic practice was to sit down, while students stood.

 

[Refreshed]

Brother Ricky,

You are glad that people in this forum are, to your view, led astray? If they emulated the tone of your post, they would be more righteous?

Jason

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

He fellowships with them and calls them "my black brother."

This quote from a post above alone bothers me - why even mention the colour of anyone's skin?

That indicates to me that there is a problem.

 

[Precepts]

Originally posted by Refreshed:
Brother Ricky,

You are glad that people in this forum are, to your view, led astray? If they emulated the tone of your post, they would be more righteous?

Jason

Not for even a twinkle of an eye! "Goats and wolves" aren't led astray, they need conversion to sheep.

The Holy Ghost has made no mistakes in the analogy of sheep as believers, in Christ. "In Christ" is the key. We have a lot of believers "of" Christ, but not all are "IN CHRIST". This obvious truth is very evident to the fact that sheep don't attack the shepherd, or one another.

You ever observed a flock of sheep? You NEVER fidn them battling it out against one another. That's why it's so evident in so many Baptist churches there are so many wolves and goats.

You don't find the "survival of the fittest" mentality in true belivers/sheep, you find a willingness to be led in paths of righteousness, not paths that go contrary to the will of God.

We're not to provoke one another to wrath as so many have done in this thread, but to provoke one another to love.

That's why I'm glad those have revealed what they truly are, I'm a sheep of God's pasture and consider it the mercy of my Shepherd to allow me to see who's who.

Just another quick little thought; when you attack one of God's sheep, may as well go ahead and prepare for the Shepherd's Staff to have it's impact on your head, and He don't miss!


I'd rather be found defending a sheep that might have made a mistake before being found attacking a sheep due to it's nature of being a goat!


**To the fellow that has a problem with the identlfying label,"Black Brothers", the black brothers ask to referred to that way.

I am good friends with Brother Mike Burris, pastor of the Decautur Baptist Church in Decautur, Ga. He's "black", he loves Brother Kidd. I wouldn't be too surprised if he wasn't at Brother Allen's when these allegations were made.

As a matter of fact, I'd pit Brother Burris and the Decautur Baptist Church against many other so-called separated churches , white, black, or any other color.

You got a problem with identifying things and people by color? Just tell that "black" police officer that the light you ran may have been red, but to you colors are only an evidence of pigmentation revealed by light and are not real, that he's really white or colorless and he can't write you a ticket! "Idiomatic reasoning"! (we'll see you in jail!)

This thread was started with an attack on a man's person with many accusations made. May I remind you that the devil is called by the Word of God the accuser?!? Since you make allegations and act on heresy/hearsay, and thereby condemn, then you are playing the part of the devil himself. It may be that you are just one of his and need to repent?

Since Jesus came into the world , not to condemn the world, then you are NOT behaving as one of His. Study John 3:17 real good, friend.

I ask all of you to reason this out for yourselves, with God. See if you're in the faith, try the spirits to see whether or not they are of God. Do your actions justify the means?

I see where the proprietors of this website hold a copywrite to the material published on this website.

**Daniel David, Are you willing to face charges of defamation of character due to your posts? You'd better make some retractions or be found liable, Sir.

The "scapegoat" of trhinking a Christian is to not to go to a court of law as a means of retribution towards those who try to defamate character of any individual is provoking the wrath of God! So be extremely careful about what you say on hearsay. You'd better get to know Brother Kidd before making any more allegations, if you do, you'll find that we who do know him, and love him, are exactly right!

If a man hate his brother, the love of God IS NOT IN him!

In Christ!

Brother Ricky

 

[Precepts]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Pastor KevinR said:

Ransom makes some interesting points...which reminded me that Jesus sat down while He delivered His sermon on the mount.

That's just a matter of custom. The standard rabbinic practice was to sit down, while students stood.

Good observation. Jesus is :set" down at the Right Hand of the Father, BUT ONE GLORIOUS DAY, HE'S GETTING UP!!

 

[Daniel David]

I will retract nothing about Phil Kidd. He is a wolf, false teacher, and lacks wisdom, knowledge, and truth. I hope he repents and is brought into the kingdom though.

 

[Precepts]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
I will retract nothing about Phil Kidd. He is a wolf, false teacher, and lacks wisdom, knowledge, and truth. I hope he repents and is brought into the kingdom though.

Are you always so hastily judging?

Maybe you can share with all of us your "substanciated" opinion of us who support Brother Kidd, and we do know him, obviously you don't.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Christ4Kildare:
He fellowships with them and calls them "my black brother."

This quote from a post above alone bothers me - why even mention the colour of anyone's skin?

That indicates to me that there is a problem.

Sir, you are right--there is a problem. The problem is that everyone is much too race conscious. To call someone “my black brother” is an acceptable speech allusion much in the same manner as calling someone “my Baptist brother,” “my Presbyterian brother,” my English brother,” “ my Jewish brother,” etc. Did not the Apostle Paul many times refer to believers by their national origin such as Greek, Jew, or Roman? To recognize that nationalities and races exist is not to be racist. I would have never given it a second thought, much less dare to post it to the message board. Yes, I do think there is a problem but the problems lies with the race paranoia that sees racism in everything. Races do exist, you know. Is it taboo to speak of them?

A corresponding problem is that every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to vilify someone that he dislikes but doesn’t have solid grounds against him uses the charge of racism. This is reprehensible, ungodly, and wicked, even as much as racism itself.

Please consider:
Titus 3:1-8
1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, 2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. 3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love F10 of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly F11 through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Thank you for your reading and consideration.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
I will retract nothing about Phil Kidd. He is a wolf, false teacher, and lacks wisdom, knowledge, and truth. I hope he repents and is brought into the kingdom though.

Let it be as you say—you will not repent. However, you are in clear violation of Scriptural teaching (see below).

James 4:11-17
11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? 13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

If you are a believer, then you would do well to consider this:

II Corinthians 5:10-11
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

I, for one, do not care what your opinion is since it is only opinion and it is an opinion, for that matter, in direct contradiction of Scripture. I do not need to argue this with you since everyone has read your post and can discern for himself or herself. My hands are clean since I have given you Scriptural admonition and warning. Adieu.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
I will retract nothing about Phil Kidd. He is a wolf, false teacher, and lacks wisdom, knowledge, and truth. I hope he repents and is brought into the kingdom though.

Do I detect a hard, judgmental spirit here? What Scriptural grounds (Please give references) do you base the following:
1. He is a wolf (Exactly, what is a "wolf" other than a four-legged animal? Does Phil Kidd meet the Scriptural designation of a wolf? If so, how?)
2. He is a false teacher (Is a false teacher the same as a teacher who sometimes makes mistakes in his teaching? Are a heretic and a false teacher the same?)
3. He is a lost man

Finally, I will ask one more searching question. Do you really desire his good after such a hard, biting condemnation? Or, is this a sop thrown in to soften your image as a hard person? I cannot find any compassion or concern for the man leaking through your post. In fact, my impression is that you are pretty much like him--just on the opposite side. There are some evidence of similarities--hard, opinionated, outspoken, controversal, etc. Am I alone is seeing this?

Sir, I will be interested in reading your reply.

Thanks for your time and consideration.