what exactly can free will do?

KenH · Mar 14, 2003

Originally posted by Brother Bill:
The Gentiles, as you correctly state, had no part in the covenant of God, therefore they couldn't have rebelled from it and become hardened as were the Israelites.
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But the Gentiles were hardened within the confines of the revelation they did have. Read Romans chapter 1. Three times the text states that God gave them up, or gave them over. The rejected God just as the Israelites did. The Gentiles failed without the Law but with only the moral law on the heart and natural revelation. The Israelites failed with the Law along with the moral law on the heart and natural revelation.

npetreley · Mar 14, 2003

Originally posted by Ken H:
romanbear,

I noticed that you evidently didn't like the result of the challenge you made to me to look up the word "regeneration" in a Bible dictionary. An objective, third party source destroyed your viewpoint. Your idea of regeneration, by definition, has absolutely no support in the Bible.
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Well, I sure liked it. In fact, let's have another look...

Good advice, romanbear. I just did. Here is what it says in Easton's Bible Dictionary:

Regeneration — only found in Matt. 19:28 and Titus 3:5. This word literally means a “new birth.” The Greek word so rendered (palingenesia) is used by classical writers with reference to the changes produced by the return of spring. In Matt. 19:28 the word is equivalent to the “restitution of all things” (Acts 3:21). In Titus 3:5 it denotes that change of heart elsewhere spoken of as a passing from death to life (1 John 3:14); becoming a new creature in Christ Jesus (2 Cor. 5:17); being born again (John 3:5); a renewal of the mind (Rom. 12:2); a resurrection from the dead (Eph. 2:6); a being quickened (2:1, 5).

This change is ascribed to the Holy Spirit. It originates not with man but with God (John 1:12, 13; 1 John 2:29; 5:1, 4).

As to the nature of the change, it consists in the implanting of a new principle or disposition in the soul; the impartation of spiritual life to those who are by nature “dead in trespasses and sins.”

The necessity of such a change is emphatically affirmed in Scripture (John 3:3; Rom. 7:18; 8:7–9; 1 Cor. 2:14; Eph. 2:1; 4:21–24).
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William C · Mar 15, 2003

Originally posted by The Archangel:
You Said:It makes the Gentiles in the same boat of hardening as the Israelites and that makes absolutely no sence in this passage.

Well, yes it does make sense. It is not Romans which says:
Romans 10:11-12 11 Now the Scripture says, No one who believes on Him will be put to shame,
12 for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, since the same Lord of all is rich to all who call on Him

It would seem that Paul thought that the Jews and Gentiles were in the "Same Boat."
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I meant in the "same boat of hardening" not in the means by which they are saved. Both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace through faith.

Angel, you may not have done this intentionally, but what you did here is called "diversion." Its failing to deal with the text by diverting the attention to another text that is not speaking about the same issue. Let's deal with Acts 28 and the issue of Hardening first. Thanks.

Interestingly enough, Paul writes in Romans 10:10 10 With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

With the heart one believes. How can that be?

Genesis 6:5 - Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 8:21 -The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.

Psalm 14:1 -The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good. (Emphasis Mine)

Jeremiah 17:9 -"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

The heart is the most wicked thing we have (ok..not the physical one that pumps blood--I think we all know that!) How can one believe in God with a wicked, rotten heart? Only if God gives a new heart. Then, and only then, can someone believe.
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These passages seem to be refering to people with "hardened hearts." Or people who have lived in sin and have had their consciences (hearts) defiled. Or some of them may speak toward man's sin nature, but none of them teach that man is born with a hardened heart.

John 12:37-41 and Acts 28 are still there.

what exactly can free will do?

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what exactly can free will do?

KenH Well-Known Member

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