What exactly is a free will decision?

This IS the definition of the Arminian God. Not the Biblical one though.

Proverbs 16:4 4 The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

Isaiah 46:10-11 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,' 11 calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.

My God ACCOMPLISHES what He DESIRES.

You say God does not DESIRE the death of the wicked? Understand it in theological context...
The Pleasure of God in All He Does
February 1, 1987

Psalm 135:6

Whatever the Lord pleases he does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps.
Two assumptions lie at the foundation of this new series of messages on the pleasures of God.
1. The first assumption is that "The worth and excellency of a soul is measured by the object of its love." (Henry Scougal). If we apply that to God, then one way of beholding the worth and excellency of God is to meditate on what he loves.

Another way to put it would be to say that the measure of God's dignity is determined by what he delights in. Or another way would be to say that the greatness of God's excellence is registered by his enjoyments. What he takes pleasure in signals the beauty and the preciousness of his character.

2. The second assumption is that when we fix our mind's attention on the worth and excellency of God, that is, when we meditate on his glory, we are changed little by little into his likeness.

And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another. (2 Cor. 3:18)

So my goal in these next 12 weeks is to direct your attention to the pleasures of God revealed in Scripture; in the hope that you will see in them some of the infinite measure of God's worth and excellency; and in seeing this glory that you might rise one step at a time into his likeness; so that at home and work and school people will see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.

Portray his pleasures in preaching. Behold his glory in listening. Approach his likeness in meditation. Display his worth in the world. May God be gracious to bless the ministry of his word in these weeks.

Last week we focused on the pleasure that God the Father has in his Son. The most important lesson to be learned from that truth is this: God is and always has been an exuberantly happy God. He has never been lonely. He has always rejoice with overflowing satisfaction in the glory of his Son. You might say that the Son of God has always been the landscape of God's excellencies or the panorama of God's perfections. And therefore from all eternity God has beheld with overflowing satisfaction the magnificent terrain of his own radiance reflected in the Son.

A second lesson to learn from this truth is that God is not constrained by anything outside himself to do anything he does not want to do. If God were unhappy, if he were in some way deficient, then he might indeed be constrained from outside in some way to do what he does not want to do in order to make up his deficiency and finally to be happy.

That is the way we are. We come into the world knowing almost nothing and have to spend years and years going to classes or learning in the school of hard knocks. Parents and teachers tell us to do things that we don't like to do because we need to do them to overcome some deficiency in ourselves—to increase our knowledge or strengthen our bodies or refine our manners.

But God is not like that. He has been complete and overflowing with satisfaction from all eternity. He needs no education. No one can offer anything to him that doesn't already come from him. And so no one can bribe him or coerce him in any way. You can't bribe a mountain spring with bucketfulls of water from the valley. Therefore God does what he does not begrudgingly or under external constraint as though he were boxed in or trapped by some unforeseen or unplanned situation.

On the contrary, because he is complete and exuberantly happy and overflowing with satisfaction in the fellowship of the Trinity, all he does is free and uncoerced. His deeds are the overflow of his joy. This is what it means when the Scripture says that God does something according to the "good pleasure" of his will. It means that nothing outside God's own pleasure—the pleasure he has in what he is, nothing but that pleasure—has constrained his choices and his deeds.

This brings us to the focus of today's message—"The Pleasure of God in All that He Does"—and today's text: Psalm 135.

The Psalm begins by calling us to praise the Lord: "Praise the Lord. Praise the name of the Lord." Then, starting in verse 3 the psalmist gives us reasons for why we should feel praise rising in our hearts toward God. It says, for example, "Praise the Lord, for the Lord is good." The list of reasons for praise goes on until it comes to verse 6, and this is the verse I want us to focus on this morning:

Whatever the Lord pleases he does,
in heaven and on earth,
in the seas and all deeps.

Psalm 115:3 says the same thing:

Our God is in the heavens;
he does whatever he pleases.

This verse teaches that whenever God acts he acts in a way that pleases him. God is never constrained to do a thing that he despises. He is never backed into a corner where his only recourse is to do something he hates to do. He does whatever he pleases. And therefore, in some sense, he has pleasure in all that he does.

Isaiah uses the same Hebrew word (as a noun) in Isaiah 46:10 where the Lord says,

My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my pleasure.

On the basis of these texts and many others we should bow before God and praise his sovereign freedom—that in some sense at least he always acts in freedom, according to his own "good pleasure," following the dictates of his own delights. He never becomes the victim of circumstance. He is never forced into a situation where he must do something in which he cannot rejoice.

This is a glorious picture of God in his sovereign freedom—to do whatever he pleases and to accomplish all his pleasure. But it would be a fuzzy picture, a bit out of focus, if we stopped here. To bring it into focus and sharpen it up we have to ask this question: "How can God say in Ezekiel 18:23 and 32 that he does not have pleasure in the death of any impenitent person, if in fact he accomplishes all his pleasure and does whatever he pleases?

In Ezekiel 18:30 God is warning the house of Israel of impending judgment: "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, says the Lord." And he is urging them to repent: "Repent and turn from all your transgressions." At the end of verse 31 he says, "Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of any one, says the Lord God; so turn, and live."

This seems to be a very different picture than the one we saw in Psalm 135, where God does whatever he pleases. Here he seems to be cornered. It seems that he is forced into judging them when he really doesn't want to. He seems to be about to do something that he is not pleased to do. Is he going to accomplish all his pleasure or not? Is God really free to do all everything according to his good pleasure? Or does his sovereign freedom have its limits? Can he do whatever he pleases up to a point, and then after that is he cornered into doing things he only grieves to do?

We might try to solve the problem by going back to Psalm 135 and saying that God does whatever he pleases in the natural world but not in the personal sphere. After all it says in verse 7:

He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his storehouses.

But this effort to limit God's freedom to the sphere of nature will not work for two reasons.
l) One is that if God controls the wind and makes it blow whenever and wherever he pleases—which is certainly true (remember Jesus' "Peace! Be still!)—then God is responsible for the destruction of thousands of lives by drowning because of the storms and hurricanes and tornadoes and monsoons and typhoons which God has brought forth from his storehouses over the centuries.

So when Psalm 135 says that the Lord does whatever he pleases it has to include the taking of personal life at sea through the wind which he alone controls.

2) But the text doesn't leave us to draw out silent inferences like that. The Psalmist goes on in verses 8-11 to say that God's sovereign freedom was shown most vividly in the Exodus out of Egypt:

8) He it was who smote the first-born of Egypt, both of man and of beast. . . 10) who smote many nations and slew mighty kings. . .

That is the second reason you can't limit the freedom of God in this Psalm to the natural realm. When the Psalmist says in verse 6 that "whatever the Lord pleases he does," he doesn't just refer implicitly to the tragedies owing to wind; he also refers explicitly to the destruction of rebellious Egyptians, and nations and kings. This is the scope of what God does when he does whatever he pleases.

So in Ezekiel it says that God is not pleased with the death of unrepentant people, and in Psalm 135 it says that God does whatever he pleases including the slaying unrepentant people. And the very same Hebrew verb is used in Psalm 135:6 ("he pleases") and Ezekiel 18:32 ("he has pleasure").

Before I suggest a solution to this problem let me make it worse.

Many Christians today have a conception of God that isn't troubled by his being cornered into doing things he doesn't want to do. And I can easily imagine that one response to what we have seen so far would be to say that we have created an artificial problem because Psalm 135 doesn't actually say that God takes delight in destroying the Egyptians.

Perhaps someone would say that "doing whatever he pleases" in Psalm 135:6 is just a figure of speech and doesn't carry the sense of pleasure or delight. And so they would say that God only grieves when he must judge unrepentant sinners, and there is no sense in which he is doing what he is pleased to do.

In answer to this I would say again that the same word used in Psalm 135:6 for God's being "pleased" is used in Ezekiel 18:32 for God's not being "pleased". Then I would direct attention to Deuteronomy 28:63 where Moses warns of coming judgment on unrepentant Israel. But this time it says something strikingly different from Ezekiel 18:32,

And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. (Cf. Prov. 1:24-26; Rev. 18:20; Ezek. 5:l3)

So we are brought back to the inescapable fact that in some sense God does not delight in the death of the wicked (that is the message of Ezekiel 18), and in some sense he does (that is the message of Psalm 135:6-11 and Deuteronomy 28:63).

I have commended a solution to you before and I will commend it again: namely, that the death and misery of the unrepentant is in and of itself no delight to God. God is not a sadist. He is not malicious or bloodthirsty. Instead when a rebellious, wicked, unbelieving person is judged, what God delights in is the vindication of truth and goodness and of his own honor and glory.

When Moses warns Israel that the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon them and destroying them if they don't repent, he means that those who have rebelled against the Lord and moved beyond repentance will not be able to gloat that they have made the Almighty miserable. Quite the contrary. Moses says that when they are judged they will unwittingly give an opportunity for God to rejoice in the demonstration of his justice and his power and the infinite worth of his glory.

Let this be a warning to us this morning. God is not mocked. He is not trapped or cornered or coerced. Even on the way to Calvary he had legions at his disposal. "No one takes my life from me; I lay it down of my own accord"—of my own good pleasure, for the joy that is set before me. At the one point in the history of the universe where God looked trapped he was totally in charge doing precisely what he pleased—dying to justify the ungodly like you and me.

So let us stand in awe and wonder this morning: "Our God is in heaven; he does whatever he pleases." Amen.

Almighty God and Merciful Father, We praise you for your everlasting happiness in the fellowship of the Trinity; that you are an infinitely exuberant God; satisfied with the panorama of your own perfections reflected in the radiance of your Son. And we praise you that you are free and sovereign in your own self-sufficiency and cannot be bribed or coerced because of some deficiency or craving in your heart. We praise you that your plan and counsel is governed not by our will but by your good pleasure.

 

An even stronger case for this is Luke 14

26"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

We are to honor parents and love our neighbor -- even our enemy -- so what is this "hate" of parents?

As God speaks about "loving Jacob" in Malachi - we see Him condemning Israel and Ephraim as "lost" in Isaiah == that would be "Jacob" in the context of Malachi!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Let us rejoice that God is TRUE to HIS WORD!!

When God SAYS "HE SO LOVES the WORLD" -- He is telling the truth. It is not simply shoddy marketing.

When God SAYS "HE is not willing for ANY TO PERISH" He is telling the TRUTH not simply hyping his own character BEYOND the level of compassion that He ACTUALLY has!

When God SAYS "He draws ALL to Himself" it really is the UNQUALIFIED - ALL!

When God SAYS That He sent Christ "to be the savior of the WORLD" 1John 4:14...He means it.

Praise God He IS true to His Word!! And Praise Him that HIS WORD describes Him as a REAL God of Love who REALLY so loved THE WORLD!!

IN Christ,

Bob

 

I love people who give answers to questions no one is asking.... did you even READ the post Bob? Or did you just not understand?

 

"They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:10

Refused = a willful and action per the bible translators.

Man goes to hell because they exercised THEIR will.

 

That's right Texas... those perishing will ALWAYS exercise their WILL. Because their hearts are DISPOSED toward NOTHING but evil.

This has never been in dispute.

 

Yes, I agree.

Now that is established, so moving ahead. . .

Man goes to heaven because God has exercised His will. Man goes to heaven because they have been born again.

John 1:13 (KJV) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 9:18 (KJV) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Ephesians 1:11 (KJV) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Isaiah 46:10 (KJV) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio

 

I have answered this to you before but you ignored it and called it huffing and puffing but I will go once more.

This is one more verses that is mis-interpted to bolster calvin's teachings.

God has done all the work, man could not will or do ANYTHING that would bring back the relationship between them and the FAther.

The pt is if God had not done all the work, His word, HS, The Christ and nature proclaimning His glory, then man would be lost. He could do nothing! All agree?

NOw you can call faith, recieving a work, and there we will disagree. You can keep those man made terms and def. for your faith in calvin's teachings and leave it at that. We can depart there agreeing to disagree as they say. However do not interpt for me and others that we feel we are working our way to heaven.

 

I have no problem with this as I see in every instance that man had already rejected God or hardend their heart first. I also have experience this in my life as a christian. From watching a person struggling with the call of God and yet not giving into the HS. Cluthcing the back of the pew or tettering back and forth afraid to give themselves to the Lord. The more they reject the harder the heart becomes. The more they sit under the preaching and do not recieve the truth the harder thier hearts become.

 

Tim tool man..... stick to fixing homes.

Quoting a bunch of verses out of context doesn't help your position at all.

Man's heart is desperately wicked.
Man's heart is evil CONTINUALLY
Man can not PLEASE God.
Man is at enmity with God.
Man is an enemy of God
Man condemns the cross as foolishness
Man CAN NOT understand the things of the Spirit
Man can do NOTHING
Man desires evil and approves of them that practice it
Man is spiritually discerned
Man follows his father the devil because his desires (will) are from his father.
Man cannot not come to Jesus
Mans righteousness is as filthy rags
Man DOES NOT seek after God , no not ONE

THIS is the anthropology of the Bible.

 

There is not one contradiction between the verses I used and the ones you qouted. Except I am not reading them through the glasses of calvin's teachings!

Matter of fact you have not even address what I said. Where have I said man sought God. I said the opposite. What is it with you calvinist, that you can't be honest, or your comprehension level is low? I don't know which. YOur whole post answers nor refutes anything I said so what are you doing? Please help!

[ July 12, 2005, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Timtoolman ]

 

Bob I am going to quit, (after rc jumped in with more strawman, I think who knows?!) cause talking to calvinist is like talking to a brick wall. Praise God you are going to heaven and praise Him also that you kids may not.


.....outta here.

 

ok..i see us getting somewhere

Man...
Man's heart is desperately wicked.
Man's heart is evil CONTINUALLY
Man can not PLEASE God.
Man is at enmity with God.
Man is an enemy of God
Man condemns the cross as foolishness
Man CAN NOT understand the things of the Spirit
Man can do NOTHING
Man desires evil and approves of them that practice it
Man is spiritually discerned
Man follows his father the devil because his desires (will) are from his father.
Man cannot not come to Jesus
Mans righteousness is as filthy rags
Man DOES NOT seek after God , no not ONE


God.....
It is HIS will that none should perish.

It is HIs will that if the son of man be lifted up He will draw all men to Him.

It is His will that He gave His son as atonement for the whole world. ...and not only for our but also for the sins of the whole world.

It is HIs will to save the world not too judge it.

It was His will to die for the ungodly.

It was HIs will that ...one died for all, and therefore all died

It was HIs will..... that Christ gave Himself a ransom for all men.

It was HIs will.... that He tasted death for every man.


how do we put the 2 together for salvation?

 

wait..tim..do not go,

hang in there...we can to a good cross road.

 

By the blood of Jesus Christ. who died for the world.

 

i can go with that tim. I think we all can. if we do not fill in the gaps...we can agree.

this is where we leave Bible teaching and follow ideas..or logic. when we say....look at this verse..this is true..so...this other thing is true. The other thing...is gap filling.

for me...the only reason for calvins teachings is to show man sin nature....compared with Gods holy nature. Salvation is more human then calvin..and more Godly then Arminian.

if i push calvin to much...mans need is not in the picture. If i push freewill to much..we bring down Gods power of choice..both..clearly in the Bible

each one of those statements of God..and Man..are true. If we do not understand how...we should not throw out the side that does not fit our view.

somehow..salvation works. we need to do our part..and witness...God will do His part and save.

 

The blood shed is the price paid, it does not change the ability of man.

How does the two come together?

Ezekiel 36:26-27 26 A new heart also will I give you , and a new spirit will I put within you : and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes , and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

It is the disposition of the heart that is the will of the man. As before mans free will is only after evil. God gives man a new disposition to FREELY choose GOOD, (which is God and the gospel). He does NOT impose or force man in any way. He will with his new heart NOW have a disposition, a desire (free will) towards the things of God, where before he only desired (free will) evil.

This is how the two are put together. ALL GOD.

Sola Deo Gloria !

 

well...really RC. both need to happen.

God is giving a new heart..this is salvation...
the new spirit..comes with salvation...
the stony heart is removed. this could be seen as opening ones eyes...or feed from sin...again at salvation.
cause you to walk in my statutes...this is after salvation not at salvation. unless you want to say this is part of opening ones eyes.

The shed blood...this is before salvation. a covering for our sins..at the cross. or..i think calvins says..atonement is at the salvation moment..not at the cross. am i right about where he says this happens?

but anyway..it does not matter. The path is made...and still..this is God that made the path.

when i read it...it always goes back to God. no matter what...it is always God doing the work. or that is the way i see it.

In Christ...James

 

That's the point. Without God giving the new heart, there is no salvation, there is no faith in Christ. The act of the heart change is BEFORE the desire for God.


Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you CAN do good who are accustomed to do evil.