What happened to Adam and Eve when they sinned?

[timtofly]

Wrong. The Bible says that Eve was deceived and committed transgression (committing transgression is sin [cf. 1 John 3:4]). Both of these things happened before Adam sinned:

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Adam did not deceive Eve. God did not deceive Eve. The serpent deceived Eve, and it did so before either Eve or Adam sinned:

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The Bible teaches that supernatural sinfulness (when the serpent deceived Eve) preceded human sinfulness.

1 Timothy 2 in context:

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression"

Eve was not submissive to her husband. That is the transgression. You are conflating 2 different acts, and contradicting Paul in Romans 5:12-14.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

You are doing the exact opposite of what 1 Timothy 2 is saying. You are making a woman as the first Adam with authority over her husband as the type of Christ who was to come.

You are changing Romans 5:12-14 to this:

"Wherefore, as by one woman sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Eve to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Eve's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

No such thing as "supernatural sin". Scripture claims a wife is to be submissive to her husband. That is your "supernatural sin".

The metaphysical aspect is that Adam and Eve were two parts of the same body, as God separated Eve out of Adam to allow humans to come together as one. Loneliness was Adam all by himself, as Eve was in him still. When Eve was removed, Adam was still the head and still responsible, not Eve. To be consistent from when Eve was removed to Paul's teaching on the relationship between man and wife, you cannot say that Eve introduced some weird sinful dynamic onto the world. That is adding a human thought into God's Word.

Being decieved is not disobedience. Acting upon one's deception when in direct violation of a law is disobedience. Since Adam disobeyed the law that was given to him, that was the introduction of sin into the world. Eve had her own interpretation of that law, probably explained to her by Adam. Adam would have stated they could not eat. Eve added to that, with her own interpretation of the law.

"neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die"

The only way you can say the cause was Eve is if Eve was the head of the household. Eve's transgression was not being submissive to Adam. Which was Paul's point.

Of course Adam was not deceived. He deliberately disobeyed God, even though he blamed Eve and God.

"And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."

What Adam should have said: "Yes".

You are doing what Adam did, and blaming the wrong person.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

1 Timothy 2 in context:

No such thing as "supernatural sin". Scripture claims a wife is to be submissive to her husband. That is your "supernatural sin".

Wrong. The Bible explicitly says that the serpent beguiled Eve:

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

God did not just punish Adam and Eve. He also punished the serpent for what it did:

Gen. 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God cursed the serpent because it deceived Eve. The serpent's deceiving Eve most certainly was sin. The serpent sinned before either Eve or Adam did.

 

[timtofly]

Wrong. The Bible explicitly says that the serpent beguiled Eve:

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

God did not just punish Adam and Eve. He also punished the serpent for what it did:

Gen. 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God cursed the serpent because it deceived Eve. The serpent's deceiving Eve most certainly was sin. The serpent sinned before either Eve or Adam did.

Punishment is not an indication of a direct disobedience to God. Satan had already rebelled at this point, no?

When do you think Satan and the angels rebelled?

We are talking about letting sin into the world. Adam had to disobey God's direct command before that happened. That is what Paul claimed.

Being decieved is not a sin. Disobedience is.

Sin was the punishment. Death was the punishment. How could they exercise the punishment before the first act of disobedience?

They were not in a state of death before Eve was deceived. They were not in a state of death, after Eve was decieved. They were not in a state of death when Eve touched the fruit. They were not in a state of death after Eve touched the fruit. They were not in a state of death when Eve took a bite. They were not in a state of death after Eve took a bite. They were not in a state of death when Adam took the fruit from Eve. They were not in a state of death while Adam was moving the fruit to his lips. The state of death happened immediately when God said it would happen. When Adam ate, immediately they physically died and spiritually died. That was when sin entered the world. But not the Garden. The Garden was not cursed. Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden to live in sin outside of the Garden. It was at the point that God cursed the ground that sin was evident now in the physical aspect of the earth, even though sin is only a spiritual concept related to death and decay.

Yes, Satan through the serpent painted a picture in direct opposition to the result of eating the fruit. Was it prudent to know what good and evil meant? Did Satan already have that knowledge, or was he hoping Eve would unlock that knowledge for him as well?

If you theorize that there were types of sin already in the world contrary to what Paul wrote, then I propose that Satan himself was building a case to convince a third of the angels to rebel. At that point, Satan did not have enough evidence. That is my theory.

If the angels had rebelled, should not Adam and Eve already have known that? They had frequent visitations with God, being the chief stewards of the Garden. Why do so many paint Adam and Eve as being ignorant of the world around them? Adam literally gave names to all the animals, no? They had knowledge of all the other sons of God spread across the earth, no? They were not living in a vacuum called the Garden of Eden oblivious to the rest of the earth.

Satan was not in direct disobedience as influencing the serpent. God does not state that as disobedience. God as the potter over the clay, can dictate what that clay does, even punishment not from a direct act of disobedience. God changing that particular serpent or even all that particular serpent's species from no longer having legs does not mean that was a punishment from a direct act of disobedience. The result was evidence that God altered the history of that particular serpent. There was no prophetic warning that would happen to the serpent if it did such and such. Should we point out that the serpent could no longer talk to humans, or was it that humans could no longer communicate with animals?

If one is to create this spiritual type of sin prior to what God's Word states, did Eve really have a conversation with a serpent as well? The penalty for direct disobedience to God throughout Scripture has been death. So is sin related to punishment that is not death? It was not even until the Cross, that God holds us responsible for thinking about wrongdoing. The OT economy was built around an animal sacrifice for the covering of acts that others could see, not the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Seems this point you have made is just trying to force the NT aspect of God's relationship with man into the Garden of Eden, where sin and disobedience had not even been made a reality at that point. Your proof text is taken out of context from one of Paul's letters.

 

[37818]

Adam's instruction included God having ". . . put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." and "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." So ". . . she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, . . ." Before Adam, was part of Adam's disobedence." He was suppose to stop her as his wife.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Punishment is not an indication of a direct disobedience to God. Satan had already rebelled at this point, no?

When do you think Satan and the angels rebelled?

We are talking about letting sin into the world. Adam had to disobey God's direct command before that happened. That is what Paul claimed.

Being decieved is not a sin. Disobedience is.

Sin was the punishment. Death was the punishment. How could they exercise the punishment before the first act of disobedience?

They were not in a state of death before Eve was deceived. They were not in a state of death, after Eve was decieved. They were not in a state of death when Eve touched the fruit. They were not in a state of death after Eve touched the fruit. They were not in a state of death when Eve took a bite. They were not in a state of death after Eve took a bite. They were not in a state of death when Adam took the fruit from Eve. They were not in a state of death while Adam was moving the fruit to his lips. The state of death happened immediately when God said it would happen. When Adam ate, immediately they physically died and spiritually died. That was when sin entered the world. But not the Garden. The Garden was not cursed. Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden to live in sin outside of the Garden. It was at the point that God cursed the ground that sin was evident now in the physical aspect of the earth, even though sin is only a spiritual concept related to death and decay.

Yes, Satan through the serpent painted a picture in direct opposition to the result of eating the fruit. Was it prudent to know what good and evil meant? Did Satan already have that knowledge, or was he hoping Eve would unlock that knowledge for him as well?

If you theorize that there were types of sin already in the world contrary to what Paul wrote, then I propose that Satan himself was building a case to convince a third of the angels to rebel. At that point, Satan did not have enough evidence. That is my theory.

If the angels had rebelled, should not Adam and Eve already have known that? They had frequent visitations with God, being the chief stewards of the Garden. Why do so many paint Adam and Eve as being ignorant of the world around them? Adam literally gave names to all the animals, no? They had knowledge of all the other sons of God spread across the earth, no? They were not living in a vacuum called the Garden of Eden oblivious to the rest of the earth.

Satan was not in direct disobedience as influencing the serpent. God does not state that as disobedience. God as the potter over the clay, can dictate what that clay does, even punishment not from a direct act of disobedience. God changing that particular serpent or even all that particular serpent's species from no longer having legs does not mean that was a punishment from a direct act of disobedience. The result was evidence that God altered the history of that particular serpent. There was no prophetic warning that would happen to the serpent if it did such and such. Should we point out that the serpent could no longer talk to humans, or was it that humans could no longer communicate with animals?

If one is to create this spiritual type of sin prior to what God's Word states, did Eve really have a conversation with a serpent as well? The penalty for direct disobedience to God throughout Scripture has been death. So is sin related to punishment that is not death? It was not even until the Cross, that God holds us responsible for thinking about wrongdoing. The OT economy was built around an animal sacrifice for the covering of acts that others could see, not the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Seems this point you have made is just trying to force the NT aspect of God's relationship with man into the Garden of Eden, where sin and disobedience had not even been made a reality at that point. Your proof text is taken out of context from one of Paul's letters.

This is a lot of unbiblical mumbo jumbo and human reasoning.

The bottom line is that the Bible says that the serpent directly denied (Genesis 3:4 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.") as being true what God had said (Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."). That is sinful speech.

God cursed the serpent for its sinful actions.

The Bible says that Eve ate of the fruit and transgressed when she did.