You appear to be saying that since God is not one in number, then there are 3 Gods who are unified.
Is this correct?
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What happened to the resurrected FLESHLY Body of Christ?
- Thread starter The Biblicist
- Start date
Is this correct?
Correct, both the Son and the Holy Spirit proceeded forth from the invisible Almighty God.... from the beginning from everlasting.
Look and read..... insertions are mine for presentation.
1 John 5
7 For there are three (numeric) that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three (numeric) are one (collectively).
:godisgood:
The problem with your interpretation is that you interpet Isaiah 43:10 to really deny the true God of the Bible. Hence, the spirit behind you cannot possibly be the Holy Spirit. It is pure fantasy that JHVH was "formed" or that JHVH refers only to Christ. Both of these interpretations deny the true God of the Bible.
The doctrine of the "Trinity" is three numerically Persons who collectively share one divine essence/attributes that make God to be God and therefore a unity of nature.
Romans 1:20 says the Godhead can be seen in Creation. Your interpretation of God cannot be seen in creation.
There is ONE universe made up of space, matter, and time and yet if you remove one of these elements our universe does not exist.
Time is past, present and future but remove any one of these elements and time ceases to exist.
Space is length, breadth, depth but remove any one of these elements and space ceases to exist.
Matter is energy, motion and phenomena but remove any one of these elements and matter ceases to exist.
Likewise, with the unity of the "Godhead." However, that is not true with your view.
Dear Readers,
Of course, Biblicist objection to my position of the matter is only based on their own religious view which is flawed and distorted.
Also, the main reason why Biblicist could not accept the Biblical fact that the YHVH of old was Jesus Christ, himself, the Son of God is because it will TOTALLY DEBUNK their flawed doctrinal faith about their assumption of the Divine Nature of God.... Therefore, he can NOT handle the Truth.... Oh well....
Let me post again my position of the matter. So, far, my posts stand without legitimate refutatation!!! :laugh:
Seve – Whose Son is YHVH said:
Look below.... another assertion lacking in merit by Biblicist himself.... asserting that we have only "One" universe made up of space. Is that right? :BangHead:
Of course, that's another ignoramous statement contrary to what the Scripture is teaching.... In fact the Lord made three (3) worlds or universes... contrary to Biblicist distorted religious view. Look and read beow...
Gen. 2:4 These [are] the generations of the heavens (plural) and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
A) The first world was the world of Adam thru Noah that was completely destroyed by the same WATERS surrounding their world. (Ref. Gen. 1;6-8)
2Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: v6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
B) Our present world ... surrounded by star DUST.... above and below it...
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
C) The New Jerusalem - where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us live.
Rev. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. v2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Aside from the above three (3) worlds.... Scripture does not mentioned anything more.
Only willingly ignorant always stumble to this Biblical Truth. :tonofbricks:
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Incorrect. There is only one God.
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel:
The LORD (YHWH..self existent One)
our God (Elohiym (plural)
is one LORD (YHWH)
ONE God, three persons. Not 3 gods.
You have no legitimate position of God. As long as your position on God is this (what you said on the previous page)
One thing Biblicist is right on the money is..... I am denying their traditional view of "Trinity" doctrine which is only based on the wild imaginations of their forefathers.... not supported by the Scripture.
Here's my view of the Truine of our God..... God is ONE (echad) collectively in unity not in number.... The Father , the Son and the Holy Ghost.....
Then you stand outside the realm of orthodox Christianity as a heretic. Anyone that denies the trinity cannot be a Christian, does not have a proper view of Christ, and cannot have a proper view of salvation. Which Christ do you serve? He is not the Christ of the Bible.
That depends on how you define "universe."
This verse you quote without context. It is a summary verse of creation. The details of it are given in chapter one.
What are you talking about? You started talking about universes. Then you switched to heavens. Now you are using "worlds." All these words are not interchangeable. Stick to one subject.
Your imaginative philosophy says that.
This speaks of a judgment that is to come. It also speaks of a new earth and new heaven that is to come.
Still a future event. What has that got to do with the here and now?
You definitely have stumbled and are very confused.
The whole board can see that.
This is a debate forum. In order to have a rational debate there are some elementary essentials that must be practiced.
1. Assert and make a case for your position.
2. Don't merely respost your assertions in response to objections
3. Respond to objections by demonstrating why they are wrong.
You have done the first. However, thus far you are stuck in #2 above.
I have dealt with your proof texts in detail and your own response thus far is simply reposting your first assertions. I have place contextual evidence before you and the readers and yet you totally ignore and simply play the part of a parrot - repeat your assertions.
More repeated assertions! However, I have provided several posts dealing with every text you have used and shown that you have mishandled the text and provided specific contextual reasons why you have mishandled those texts. YET YOU HAVE YET TO RESPOND to any of these objections.
We all know you are good at repeating posts. We all know you are very good at making personal attacks. You have not responded to any of the posts that I provide explicit contextual based reasons why your interpretations are simply wrong. If you don't think my responses are "legitmate" you have provided no readers on this forum ANY REASONS or RESPONSES to demonstrate that charge! So it is merely another assertion without substance.
First, I was speaking of our CURRENT UNIVERSE. When I use the term "universe" I used it in its current scientific application that includes ALL OF CREATION not merely planet earth or our solar system or the milkyway galaxy???
Second, are you suggesting that what God created in Genesis 1 no longer exists?
Third, are you suggesting that Noah's flood was not merely restricted to our own immediate atmosphere and solar system but there was another complete creation of another universe?
Fourth, the future new creation has not yet arrived and so obviously I could not be speaking of something not even in existence!
When I use the term "universe" I am referring to ALL CREATION or everything God created and not merely our localized planet and its atmosphere. Our current universe includes not merely our soloar system, not merely to the milky way galaxy, not merely the countless galaxies we are beginning to observe but all of the above.
How are you defining your use of "worlds" in connection with "universes"?
How are you defining "heavens"? Are you making that equal to "universe" and/or "worlds"?
Are you saying our solar system, the milky way galaxy and other countless galaxies within the universe was destroyed by a flood that was localized to the atmosphere and planet of earth???
When I use the term "universe" I used it in its current scientific application that includes ALL OF CREATION not merely planet earth or our solar system or the milkyway galaxy???
Are you saying you reject the current scientific discoveries concerning the existence of our solar system, milky way galaxy and countless of other gaxalies outside our own. These have been confirmed by Hubble's telescope in space, as well, as many landbase types of radioscopes/telescopes, etc.???
Are you serious? Do you really think I was speaking about this yet future creation??? I suggest you go back and reread what I said. I spoke of the present universe that is and can be scientifically observed.
Let's see how you respond to my questions before we draw this kind of conclusion. Will you respond? This is not a forum to merely assert your ideas or a place to proselyte but is designed for intelligent exchange of ideas and debate.
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Romans 1:20 was written by Paul to the saints at Rome who lived after the flood and before the new creation. Hence, the creation that his readers could observe that revealed the "Godhead" is the very same creation we are observing today. This is the universe that reveals the "Godhead."
This is a trinune universe/creation. Our observable universe is a Triune universe. It is ONE creation/universe composed of three elements (time, space, matter).
Even if you disagree with some details in the previous paragrah, what cannot be denied is that each of these three elements are present in this creation/universe and they are trinune in nature.
Time is past, present and future. If you totally removed any one aspect of time then all time would cease to exist. For example, lets say your remove all that is past, then there is nothing present and nothing future as past time is inseparable from the existence of all that is in this creation. If you removed the present there could be no past or future as they become meaningless terms empty of any substance.
Space is width, length and depth. If you removed one of these apsects you remove all space. For example, take a piece of chald and draw a line on a chalk board. Now, that chalk line has depth (thin) length and breadth. You cannot remove one without removing all three. Try it and see.
Matter is energy, motion and phenomena. If you removed one of these elements you remove all matter.
They are three in distinction but they are ONE indivisibly in regard to essence. The true God of the Bible is revealed in the basic elements of His creation just as Paul says in Romans 1:20.
However, the definition of God by Seve is not reflected in this present creation. Nor does the word "one" whether the Hebrew or the Greek term it translates demands that it must mean "one" collectively.
Seve attempts to take the term "one" as used in John 17 and John 10 in order to make his case. I have responded to his attempt and showed how it is mixing apples with oranges. In John 17 the context is talking about God and His nature. However, in John 17 the context is SANCTIFICATION by the Word of God. We are to be one in "unity" in regard to sanctification or set apart to the same values and teachings found in God's Word. However, in John 10 we are not brought into the conversation in regard to the onenes between the Son and Father but the very reverse. Jesus separates Himself from all others in regard to identity with God. He is "one" with God not possible with creatures.
Moroever, we have provided contextual evidence that Isaiah 43:10 neither speaks of YHVH being conformed nor that what they witnessed was YHVH being formed but they are witnesses of YHVH profession that He alone is God and no other God exists (Isa. 43:12; 44:8). We have also proven that the name YHVH is the name ascribed both the Father and the Son (Isa. 44:6; Psa. 110:3).
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This is certainly the understanding of the jews prior to the coming of Christ as they did not believe in three God's as one collectively.
Mr 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Note the singular pronoun "he" instead of "them". This clearly shows the Jews did not believe in any collective plurality of gods. Also note, that Jesus did not correct this interepretation.
Neither is this the understanding of New Testament writers and their use of "one" God. Take note in the following texts that "one God" refers to the Father IN DISTINCTION from the "one" Lord who is Christ.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
In none of the above texts can "one" be understood as a collective oneness of many gods.
There is but One God the Father. That is a distinction within the "one God" just as "one Lord" is a distinction within the "one God."
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jesus was raised in same physical body, but was now in a glorified state, he went to hades, and now is in heaven sitting at right hand of the father, in his role of high priest for his saints!
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
If we are to believe Seve, Jesus' body is still in that tomb, decayed, rotted away to nothing but dust and bone.
But the Bible presents an empty grave, a risen flesh body.
As DHK pointed out, Seve is presenting 'another Jesus' that the One who rose from the dead in a flesh and bone body.
But the Bible presents an empty grave, a risen flesh body.
As DHK pointed out, Seve is presenting 'another Jesus' that the One who rose from the dead in a flesh and bone body.
Once again, try to debate my recorded stand (without edition or distortion) and NOT based it on your made up stories and convoluted premises. I guess.... ALL of you here are very notorious making up fallacious argument together.....that's not good. Look and read below....
2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
Again.....read my lips .... and deal with it......... The dead body (flesh) of Jesus was raised into a Glorified Body.... the same Glorified Body he had.... when he appeared in Person to be seen and witness by Abraham (when he sat down and ate with him), Isaac and others including when he wrestled with Jacob in the Old Testament.
YHVH is Jesus Christ himself, the Son of the invisible Almighty God. The great I AM of old..... No one can represent the express image of the invisible Almighty God except the Son....even in the old testament.... for in him (the Son) dwelleth the fullness of Godhead, bodily (physically).
Daniel 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, [and] spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. v25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
However, the begging question remains unanswered..... how king Nebuchadnezzar could have known the appearance or look-a-like of the Son of God in the Old testament.? .... if we follow our apologizers' doctrinal faith and logic here..... Tsk... tsk....tsk....
Moriah is correct though..... No flesh and blood can enter/inherit the kingdom of God (period)..... :laugh:
2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
Again.....read my lips .... and deal with it......... The dead body (flesh) of Jesus was raised into a Glorified Body.... the same Glorified Body he had.... when he appeared in Person to be seen and witness by Abraham (when he sat down and ate with him), Isaac and others including when he wrestled with Jacob in the Old Testament.
YHVH is Jesus Christ himself, the Son of the invisible Almighty God. The great I AM of old..... No one can represent the express image of the invisible Almighty God except the Son....even in the old testament.... for in him (the Son) dwelleth the fullness of Godhead, bodily (physically).
Daniel 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, [and] spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. v25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
However, the begging question remains unanswered..... how king Nebuchadnezzar could have known the appearance or look-a-like of the Son of God in the Old testament.? .... if we follow our apologizers' doctrinal faith and logic here..... Tsk... tsk....tsk....
Moriah is correct though..... No flesh and blood can enter/inherit the kingdom of God (period)..... :laugh:
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What happened to the DEAD body placed into the grave?
What happened to the body of "FLESH" that Jesus presented to his Apostles for 40 days and which they saw rise into heaven?
Lk. 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not FLESH and bones, as ye see me have.
ACts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
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Seve,
What happedend to the body that DIED and was placed in the grave?
Jesus repudiate you and Moriah's claim that his resurrected body was not "FLESH"
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Seve, what happened to the "FLESH" body placed in the grave?
Seve, what happed to this "FLESH" body that came out of the grave?
What happedend to the body that DIED and was placed in the grave?
Jesus repudiate you and Moriah's claim that his resurrected body was not "FLESH"
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Seve, what happened to the "FLESH" body placed in the grave?
Seve, what happed to this "FLESH" body that came out of the grave?
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Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Biblicist,
It appears you and Seve are speaking of two different Jesus's.
Your's, as you have pointed out using the Word of God, had a flesh and bone body after the resurrection.
Seve's Jesus appears to be only spirit and is not the Jesus that presented Himself to the Apostles who later witnessed Him ascend into heaven.
Seve brings to the discussion the 'another Jesus' that Paul warned the Church at Corinth about.
It appears you and Seve are speaking of two different Jesus's.
Your's, as you have pointed out using the Word of God, had a flesh and bone body after the resurrection.
Seve's Jesus appears to be only spirit and is not the Jesus that presented Himself to the Apostles who later witnessed Him ascend into heaven.
Seve brings to the discussion the 'another Jesus' that Paul warned the Church at Corinth about.
Sorry to dissapoint you Biblicist, but the fact is... Jesus after his resurrection... was NOT wearing just an ordinary human (flesh) body anymore.... but a GLORIFIED BODY...as I have stated repeatedly citing the Old Testament appearances.
What makes you think that a Glorified Body is a spirit ...? How could the Son appeared in person in the old testament.... to be seen and witnessed.... if he did not have a physical body? How could Jacob WRESTLED him... if he did not have a body and bones? As I have posted before.... Jesus was the 2nd Man from heaven...
Hebrews 1:6 AND AGAIN, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Only willingly ignorant always stumble to this truth after being being told repeatedly. :laugh:
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Therefore be ignorant. The OT appearances are totally irrelevant. When Jesus appeared to Thomas after his resurrection this is what he said:
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
He had a physical body. The body had the nail prints in his hands, the scar from the spear. It was a real body that satisfied the skepticism of Thomas, who like you, did not believe that Jesus had a fleshly body. But he did. And with that same body he ascended up into heaven.
What further did he say to Thomas:
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
But you remain faithless in spite of what the Word of God says.
Nobody claimed the resurrected body was in the same condition as it was when it was placed in the grave but it was the same body placed in the grave. It was the "DEAD" body that was raised from the grave but ALIVE and without corruption and without its former "weakness" but with "power" (1 Co5. 15:42-44).
Never said it was a spirit! Jesus denied his body was a "spirit" but asserted it was "FLESH" - Lk. 24:39.
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
He appeared in VARIOIUS forms (man, angel, glorious being, "like the son of god"; etc.) These are called Theophanies.
This is a LIE! He is called "THE LORD from heaven" but NEVER called "The second man from heaven."
Anyone with two grains of common sense can read what you say and know immediatley you don't know what you are talking about but are speaking foolishly and ignorantly.