What happens if you die while you're sinning?

[gekko]

heavenly pilgrim said "Gekko: please help me out... kindly, with no harsh remarks on saying i've got another gospel.

HP: Gekko, I believe if I were you I would wear this statement as a badge of honor coming from the one making the charge."

im not branding anybody as with another gospel in their hands. im trying to understand where they are coming from.

heavenly pilgrim said "Gekko, That was a nice list of Scriptures on repentance. Did you mention the following? If so, forgive me for adding them.
Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Lu 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

thanks for the verses - its always great to see a verse a second time though. right?

God bless.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Here is a short note on repentance.

Even in the OT the Jews clearly understood the necessity of repentance. Alfred Edersheim, a well renowned author and scholar in Jewish tradition in his book entitled “The Temple” sets forth the notion that the Jews always understood that just presenting a sacrifice for sin would not atone for that sin, UNLESS one truly offered that sacrifice in the spirit of repentance.

Repentance has been enjoined as a condition of forgiveness throughout the Scriptures, cover to cover.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Gekko, When we find a verse one time we need to pay attention. When we read the same thing repeated twice in two verses, it adds emphasis, at least to me.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Heavenly Pilgrim:
DHK:Have you never lied since you have been saved? If you deny it you have just lied again.
"Let God be true but every man a liar" (Rom.3:4)

HP:I asked you this several posts ago, but on the chance you missed it I thought I would ask it again.
Lets take a man at the alter that has just got serious with God and has repented of all sins that are past and accepted the atonement of Christ by faith to cover those sins. If you asked him that question as he stood up from the alter, and he told you his heart was white as snow, would you call him a liar as well?

You said:
"Lets take a man at the alter that has just got serious with God and has repented of all sins"

which shows your lack of a Biblical understanding of salvation.
No man can repent of his sins. Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to repent of our sins. That is neither Biblical or possible.
How many of you can even remember all the sins that you have ever committed much less repent of each one of them?? Repenting of your sins is an impossibility.
Repenting is a change of mind or attitude toward God. It is a change of attitude in respect to my old life of sin and rebellion against God, and repentance toward God in a life of submission to Him as Lord. It is a turn about. It is not counting sins and feeling sorry for each one.
DHK

 

[Brother Bob]

Hope you don't resent me posting the few Scriptures. BTW these Scriptures calling for repentance are from the Bible if it would be a help to someone.

Luke, chapter 5
"32": I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


Matthew, chapter 3
"8": Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

2 Corinthians, chapter 7
"10": For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Mark, chapter 2
"17": When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

2 Peter, chapter 3
"9": The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Claudia_T]

I think I might actually agree with DHK on something.... as far as repenting for each sin goes...

But I think as we continue to behold the perfect character of Christ, our repentence will deepen.

We will realize more and more our unlikeness to Christ and also we will become more and more aware of just what Jesus did for us in sacrificing Himself on the cross for our sins.

 

[gekko]

heavenly pilrim said "Gekko, When we find a verse one time we need to pay attention. When we read the same thing repeated twice in two verses, it adds emphasis, at least to me."

i completely agree. if it seemed i was being sarcastic - forgive me...

DHK said "Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to repent of our sins. That is neither Biblical or possible."

first of all - please read the Word of God to correct yourself on that point - secondly - read brother bob's post above - as well as my posts on repentance and heavenly pilgrim's post on the verses in luke about repentance.

after you've thoroughly read those four area's. what have you got to say?

 

[Claudia_T]

I think you guys need to go back and re-read what DHK actually said again...

 

[J. Jump]

we are comprised of Body, Soul, and Spirit - Body being flesh - soul being the life God has given us - and Spirit (whether it be the Holy Spirit or an evil spirit)

You are close. We are definitely body, soul and spirit. I agree with your assesment of the body=flesh. I don't know that I would agree with your assesment of the soul. The spirit is not evil per se. The spirit is dead.

If you want to hear some wonderful teaching on the body, soul and spirit go to my website at www.1-heart.org/developing_perspective.htm. There is a series there that deals with this subject extensively. It's not my series, but is highly recommended.

now - when we believe and (romans 10) confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord - then the Holy Spirit comes into us - changing the spirit in us from an evil one - to one that is holy.

Stop at believe and you got it. Confession that Jesus is Lord belongs to the issue of the soul not the spirit. The only thing required for salvation by grace through faith is believe... Ephesians 2:8-9 or Acts 16:30-31.

The Holy Spirit breaths life into our dead spirit and we become spiritually alive and now are capable of understanding spiritual things, whereas before we couldn't understand anything spiritual except that Jesus died and shed His blood to pay for our sins. If we believe that we are saved.

The Holy Spirit then helps our soul not to sin - it will sin if we give in to sin though. same with the flesh - the body.

At the simplest level I would agree with that.

our spirit is then eternal - because it is the Holy Spirit. but our body is not. our soul is eternal only after repentance.

Our spirit has passed from darkness to light and is incapable of sinning, not because it is the Holy Spirit, but it is still our spirit that has been made alive. And we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit.

Our body is not eternal. Saved folks will receive glorified bodies in the future. Our souls are still in darkness as per Hebrews 4:12, but it is still eternal, just not saved.

Repentence is a necessary step in the salvation of the soul, but it's not the only step. The salvation of the soul is a process that lasts a lifetime.

am i getting this so far?

You're getting closer.

hope of glory said "A drunk or someone shacking up can still be saved, but don't tell me they're living a faithful life!"

neither will they go to heaven if they continue in that...

No you are missing, becuase you are equating salvation by grace through faith (saving of the spirit) with works. Once the spirit is made alive (saved) it can never die again. It has passed from death to life. It is incapable of sinning and therefore secure in its eternal destiny.

So it doesn't matter if that person stays drunk 24/7/365 from that point on they are still saved. I wouldn't recommend it and I would teach against it, but ultimately it is up to that person. Works and salvation by grace through faith do not mix at all.

Hope that helps.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Hi DHK,
For whatever you did say, you did not answer the question. You completely avoided it. You made a clear statement. You said, “ Have you never lied since you have been saved? If you deny it you have just lied again.”

I asked a simple question. It demands a simple yes or no answer. Would you be so kind as to just answer it plainly with a yes or a no? Thanks.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK,
Let me ask it in another way if that is OK. Can a man ever have a pure heart before God, and have a testimony that God has forgiven you of every sin, and that your heart is white as snow and that every sin that is passed is casted from us as far as the East is from the West?

 

[Brother Bob]

When you say "Lord forgive me of my sins" will suffice, if He forgives you He don't pick them out and say I will forgive you this one but these others over here no way!

He knows every sin we ever committed.

 

[gekko]

J.Jump said "No you are missing, becuase you are equating salvation by grace through faith (saving of the spirit) with works. Once the spirit is made alive (saved) it can never die again. It has passed from death to life. It is incapable of sinning and therefore secure in its eternal destiny."

the spirit that is in us is the Holy Spirit - so its a given that it is incapable of sinning - God will not send the Holy Spirit to the lake of fire - because the Holy Spirit is God (holy trinity here...)

we become one in the spirit. (isn't that a verse somewhere?) - its not our spirit - its the Holy Spirit.

God can destroy both body and soul in hell - but cannot destroy the Holy Spirit.

you've still lost me. i will try listening to the series later...

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amen Brother Bob,
I had complete victory at salvation. I had the witness of the Spirit that God had forgiven me of every sin I had committed. Now I have to admit that that was not the end of the sin question for me. I was fine for some time, but nagging questions as to past sins kept creeping up. It seemed after a while that every time I fell to my knees, all I could see were my past sins. I honestly could not tell whether or not it was the Holy Spirit or the enemy of my soul pressing the weight of sins that were forgiven back upon my mind. At that point I decided on a plan. I would take out a pencil and paper and begin to list every sin that I had committed against my fellowman that I knew in my heart I needed to make restitution for. It was no small list, and I was taunted with thoughts that if I went back to these individuals that I would never get a job again, no one would ever have any confidence in me again, and besides that I had little of nothing to pay anyone back. I followed the leading of the Spirit and started making my rounds, repenting to these individuals and offering to make every wrong right. I challenge any and all to go through that process and see if in fact you don’t shout for joy at the end of the list, praising and singing praises to the Most High God for a clean, I mean perfectly clean heart! When the last restitution was made, my heart was clear and no longer did one of those sins ever taunt my conscience again. Thank the Lord for full salvation from all sin! Go ahead,if you haven't already, try it if you doubt the victory that God will grant you over every sin and the pure heart that awaits you!

 

[Brother Bob]

When God saves you He saves the whole man but the outward man (flesh) must wait on the resurrection to receive its change. The evil spirit is cast out and the good spirit comes in. The soul is raised from a dead state to a lively hope in Jesus Christ when you are first saved and the body is brought under subjection for he that is within you is stronger than he that is without. That is why Paul said the whole creation groaneth together until now waiting on the redemption of the body. One part of a man is not going one place and another part going to another. If you are going to Heaven it will be both soul and body. If you are going to the Lake it will be both soul and body. Amen,

BBob

 

[Brother Bob]

HP; I commend you for that but I have never had to pray over those sins again and if I did have to I would be lost for most were done in a drunken stuper and I wouldn't know where to begin. I am glad and more than glad that your heart is at peace now. I give my life to the Lord and He knows my heart and on that I am willing to die on. God bless you and I am sure He will,

BBob

 

[J. Jump]

Gekko we still have our spirit, which has been made alive and we also have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

When God saves you He saves the whole man but the outward man (flesh) must wait on the resurrection to receive its change. The evil spirit is cast out and the good spirit comes in. The soul is raised from a dead state to a lively hope in Jesus Christ when you are first saved and the body is brought under subjection for he that is within you is stronger than he that is without. That is why Paul said the whole creation groaneth together until now waiting on the redemption of the body. One part of a man is not going one place and another part going to another. If you are going to Heaven it will be both soul and body. If you are going to the Lake it will be both soul and body. Amen,

If the soul is saved at the point of salvation by grace through faith please provide Scripture for this instead of Bob said so.

 

[gekko]

J.Jump - provide scripture that says it don't.

if none of us cannot do that - then i dont believe we should discuss the issue. right? otherwise its only our opinions. we'd be eisegeting it all (not saying anybody is...)

 

[gekko]

so J.Jump - are you saying we have two spirits in us??

 

[Brother Bob]

Psalms, psalm 23


1: The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2: He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3: He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5: Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6: Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.