What happens if you die while you're sinning?

[gekko]

brother bob said: "hmmm Wonder why He said preach the Gospel to every creature? Wonder who they were preaching to and what were they preaching when 3000 souls were saved?"

who were they preaching to? ---> jews.
what were they preaching? ---> the gospel.

why didn't they show them the law before grace could enter? ---> because they already knew the law.

why did he say every creature? ---> why wouldn't He?

why do we need to preach the law (ten commandments) before grace? ---> so that they know what sin is.

why do they need to know what sin is? ---> well they can't really repent from something if they dont know what it is. right?

what should we be doing? ---> leading them to Mt. Sinai (where God gave the ten commandments) before leading them to Mt. Zion (where God is)

why should it be 90% law and 10% grace? ---> well - how responsive would you be if a doctor explained to you that you had a terminal disease and showed the proof for only 1 minute and then given the cure - how responsive would you be to the cure? would you snatch it up faster if you heard about the disease for 1 minute or 9 minutes?

why should we be telling people about the wrath to come? ---> i'll let you answer that one.

why do we need to bring these people through the law before we tell them the gospel? ---> because Jesus did it - john 4 (woman at the well)

so why did peter not give the 3000 the law before the gospel? ---> because they already knew the law. they didn't need to hear it again - they were humbled by the law - because they knew what it said.


so for you to use that scripture and say that sometimes un-believers will understand the 'preaching of the cross' is not biblical. they will not understand it until they know the whole story - sin - death - repentance and all. the whole shabang.

i know we cannot save people - here's a good analogy - "you can lead a horse to water - but you can't make him drink... but you can salt his oats"

i'll let you think about that - and refer to the similitudes as well.

God bless

 

[Claudia_T]

a real Christian might do such a thing but will repent. Just as David repented after what he did with Bathsheba

 

[gekko]

true christians hate sin - its the flesh that sins (romans 7) - they fall into sin.

false christians wont say anything about sin - they die in their sin.

 

[Brother Bob]

He was preaching to Jews but to convert them to Christians.

So, you believe preaching the Gospel does not include preaching the cross.


1 Corinthians, chapter 2

"2": For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

You do err bad if you think we not supposed to preach Jesus to a lost and dying world, you are completely out of the realm.

I don't have to think about that one for it is too far out, to be kind.

 

[Brother Bob]

Claudia; There you go using the OT to justify the Grace. We have the Holy Ghost inward and worship God in Spirit and truth. They under the OT worshiped God in the flesh. So please don't use David or anyone else under the OT. That is why Jesus came in the first place. Adultery today is even stronger than then.

If I were to use the OT to justify today I could stone my wife and kids for disobeidence, have concubines, multible wives etc. The Ten Commandments were carried over but this stuff of receiveing God by a fleshly seed is gone.

 

[gekko]

brotherbob said "So, you believe preaching the Gospel does not include preaching the cross."

no i dont believe that. who said that i did? i never did.

the law needs to come before grace. otherwise they will not understand it. it says they wont in the bible.

 

[Brother Bob]

gek; The Grace of God teaches the Law before you or I get there so they are ready to hear the preaching of the Cross and if I misquoted you I am sorry.

gek; false christians wont say anything about sin - they die in their sin.

(That happens a lot gek

 

[gekko]

got a question for you brotherbob.

what's the backsliding rate for the churches today?
out of 100 people - how many backsliders are going to come out of that 100?

 

[Brother Bob]

None, don't believe in backsliding. Those that leave is according to the Scriptures "they were never of us".

1 John, chapter 2

"19": They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[gekko]

ooh - you're a quick one.

ok - how many of those 100 professing christians were "never of us" ?

 

[Brother Bob]

gek; In my over 33 years as an ordanined minister, 25 years as a Pastor there have been very very few, thank God.

 

[Claudia_T]

Bob,

Do you mean that if someone in your church commits adultery then thats "it" for them? They never get a second chance and they are kicked out of the church?

What if they repent afterwards?

 

[Brother Bob]

Claudia; If they repent afterwards and have quit their sin then we accept their confession and will receive them back by baptism. If they do it again and again I quit getting my feet wet.

 

[Claudia_T]

Well that sounds reasonable

 

[gekko]

praise the Lord for that!

please check these two video's out.
the first is 30 minutes - the second is 6 minutes.

Episode 1 (not starwars dont worry)

Witnessing Experience

God bless

 

[J. Jump]

Wow this thread really took off

DHK Christians receiving discipline in the 1,000-year reign of Christ is far from heresy. That message can be found throughout the entire NT. All you have to do is look at the parables of the talents, pounds, virgins, wedding feast and a number of other places.

And folks whether or not we want to admit it or think about it there are some Christians that have done some pretty bad things and whether we like it or not we will seem them on the right side of eternity.

The only one that knows whether or not a person is saved or not is God. And just because someone commits adultery, murder or steals a candy bar or whatever example we want to give doesn't mean they aren't a Christian.

Christians are still perfectly capable of walking by the flesh. And when walking by the flesh one is capable of anything.

Peter denied Christ three times. Are you going to tell me that if he had died at that point he wouldn't have been saved?

I don't know why we have become so arrogant to think we can know whether or not someone is saved or why it is even any of our business.

If a person says they are saved then treat them as a Christian brother or sister. When they do something worty of rebuke or discipline then IN LOVE we need to do our part as a Christian brother or sister and be an instrument God can use to bring them back onto the straight and narrow.

And if they don't comply then don't fellowship with them, but let's quite trying to play God and determine whether someone is or is not saved. That's not our job or is it even knowable to us for sure.

 

[Brother Bob]

My Bible say to withdraw from such a person. I am sure they are among us but they are not Christians but hypocrits and will be judged accordingly. God will judge them and according to the Scriptures it won't be a home in Heaven.

The only one that knows whether or not a person is saved or not is God. And just because someone commits adultery, murder or steals a candy bar or whatever example we want to give doesn't mean they aren't a Christian.

(That undoubtably is one of the worst statements I have ever read.)


1 Corinthians, chapter 6
"18": Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1 Corinthians, chapter 5
"1": It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.


2 Timothy, chapter 3
1": This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

"2": For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

"3": Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

"4": Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

"5": Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

1 Timothy, chapter 6
"3": If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

"4": He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

"5": Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Its our job to be stewards of the church. You say if they don't obey then withdraw and I say if the commit such a sin, then withdraw. Seems you consider it a worse thing to disobey than to commit adultery.

 

[D28guy]

Brother Bob...

"None, don't believe in backsliding. Those that leave is according to the Scriptures "they were never of us"."

Hmmmmm.

All through Ephesians Ch 4 and 5 the brothers and sisters in Ephesus were sometimes engaging in sins that they shouldt participate in. Some of these sins were...

Course jesting
Lying
Inordinate anger
Stealing
Sexual sin
evil speaking

etc etc etc.

They are admonished that they were "grieving the Holy Spirit", that they should "put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man", they should "walk as children of the light", and "not as children of the darkness".

And I'm sure you agree with all of that.

But here is an interesting statement, from Almighty God, concerning those doing all of these things, including lying, stealing, and fornication...

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption"

God clearly disagrees with you that any time a christian sins, they prove they arent really a christian.

God bless,

Mike

 

[Brother Bob]

They were people among them but didn't make them Christians. Paul said to get rid of them.

You do err thinking such people were Christians. Paul was trying to get them to not be as the Gentles. He was trying to convert the Jews to Christianity. Makes me sad for those who teach others to tell them that to be a Christian is to be able to committ adultery, lie, steal etc. What kind of a Christian is that. He that is within you is greater than he that is in the world.


1 Corinthians, chapter 3
"16": Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

"17": If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

"18": Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.


Ephesians, chapter 4
17: This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18: Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20: But ye have not so learned Christ;
21: If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23: And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24: And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25: Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26: Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27: Neither give place to the devil.
28: Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29: Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31: Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

(It is as simple as that and if you are among such I would advise you to find you a church that is on the Rock.)

[ May 15, 2006, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

[J. Jump]

Bob so anyone that commits adultery you just write them off just like that? If that person realizes their wrong and seeks forgiveness. Nope too bad, because Brother Bob says we are to write them off?

Come on now.

Jesus didn't write off the woman caught in adultery. So why should we think ourselves in a position to do that without first approaching them to give them an opportunity for repentence?

Now if the person is unrepentant then take some witnesses and then take it before the church. Then after that they have basically written their own ticket.

I don't think we are to ever write off anyone without giving them a chance for repentence.

Not sure what you are trying to say with the verses that you have pulled out, but it seems to me just reading them that these are people that this is the way they are and are unrepentant about it. It has become a way of life for them.

And if that is the case then I wholeheartedly agree with you that we are to withdraw from them.