What has happened to preaching God's Wrath?

[righteousdude2]

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness..." Romans 1:18 (NIV)

Besides "hell" another term or word that is not often used to build a message around is "God's wrath!"

I can see why the "Tickle my ear's Pastor Elmo" church refuses to preach on hell, or wrath, or even judgement, but has the evangelical Baptist church ceased to speak such negative verbiage for fear of emptying the pews?

What is your stance on preaching about His wrath, pastors? And for those who are members of a church, when was the last time your pastor spoke about His wrath? And if your pastor does step out an emphasize His wrath and hell, how often does that happen in, let's say a year?

Here are a few of the times "wrath" is mentioned in the NT [link from http://www.net-burst.net/god/wrath-nt.htm]:

John 2:15-17 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market!” His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.”
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Romans 12:19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.

1 Corinthians 10:22 Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

Hebrews 10:26-31 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 12:28.29 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire.”

Revelation 6:16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!”

Revelation 14:10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

Revelation 19:15-16 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

[Salty]

People get their feelings hurt too easy!

Several months ago, I preached a hard message. Boy, did I step on some toes. I hit below the belt with suggestions such as not being late for church, in fact, you should be in the sanctuary 10 minutes early so you can be in communion with the Lord, be sure to bring your Bible every Sunday, attend Sunday School, (out of 20 members, only 4 or 5 were showing up), Read your Bible every day, we should be able to memorize the Books of the Bible, we should be memorizing Bible verses, ect. (I will also mention, I later found out that one member in a leadership position was attending SS at a Pentecostal church)

So what did the church members do? They complained to the pastor. Well the senior pastor did the only thing he could do. He did not have me preach anymore! ( was the Associate Pastor)

Heaven forbid, had I preached a really tough message.

And she called the boy Ichabod, saying, "The glory has departed ... I Sam 4:21

 

[HAMel]

Salty..., at least you found out early on.

rd2, truth be known..., it's all about the money!

Besides, should you tell the truth to those who are not worthy of it it's like singing to the pigs. Very annoying.

 

[Zaac]

It is impossible to preach of God's love without preaching of His wrath. They are inseparable. That's why anyone who tries to do so is preaching a false gospel that IS NOT the GOSPEL.

 

[Judith]

It is part of the falling away the church must and is going through. The problem is it is only going to get worse.

 

[RLBosley]

Many (most?) in the west who claim to be Christian aren't. Instead they are moralists who have usurped the name and preach a false gospel of works and life enhancement.

I'm thankful for my church. The pastors both faithfully teach the word, including the wrath of God when appropriate.

I teach the youth class and instead of entertaining them we cover books of the Bible from beginning to end (currently in Hebrews) and I often teach on the wrath of God.

This is all balanced with teaching the grace of God and the love of God, not going to either extreme.

It is impossible to preach of God's love without preaching of His wrath. They are inseparable. That's why anyone who tries to do so is preaching a false gospel that IS NOT the GOSPEL.

:thumbs:

 

[Salty]

...I teach the youth class and instead of entertaining them we cover books of the Bible from beginning to end (currently in Hebrews) and I often teach on the wrath of God. ...

This problem of teaching Gods wrath is nothing new.

Back in the 60's our church sponsored the Awana Shipmate program. The study guides for the teens demanded dedication to the study of Gods Word. The study requirements were age appropriate (16-18). We had Shipmates for two years - by that time - most of the kids were tired of the extra work required. I was virtually the only one who thrived on this program. At the end of the two years the church decided to drop Shipmates, (they did retain AWANA for grades 3-8) and replaced it with a weekly Fri night fellowship - of just games, fun and lounging around. I may have went once or twice - but stop going after that.

 

[Crabtownboy]

What has happened to preaching God's love?

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness..." Romans 1:18 (NIV)

Besides "hell" another term or word that is not often used to build a message around is "God's wrath!"

I can see why the "Tickle my ear's Pastor Elmo" church refuses to preach on hell, or wrath, or even judgement, but has the evangelical Baptist church ceased to speak such negative verbiage for fear of emptying the pews?

What is your stance on preaching about His wrath, pastors? And for those who are members of a church, when was the last time your pastor spoke about His wrath? And if your pastor does step out an emphasize His wrath and hell, how often does that happen in, let's say a year?

Here are a few of the times "wrath" is mentioned in the NT [link from http://www.net-burst.net/god/wrath-nt.htm]:

John 2:15-17 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market!” His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.”
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Romans 12:19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.

1 Corinthians 10:22 Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

Hebrews 10:26-31 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 12:28.29 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire.”

Revelation 6:16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!”

Revelation 14:10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

Revelation 19:15-16 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

[Zaac]

What has happened to preaching God's love?

Amongst a lot of "political" conservatives who go to church, the problem isn't so much preaching about it as it is LIVING it.

And then with a lot of "political" liberals who go to church, the problem is preaching of nothing BUT God's love and not acknowledging that He has a wrath that goes with that love.

The FULL of Scripture balances things the way they are supposed to be presented. If people would just preach the word.

 

[Yeshua1]

Amongst a lot of "political" conservatives who go to church, the problem isn't so much preaching about it as it is LIVING it.

And then with a lot of "political" liberals who go to church, the problem is preaching of nothing BUT God's love and not acknowledging that He has a wrath that goes with that love.

The FULL of Scripture balances things the way they are supposed to be presented. If people would just preach the word.

The problem is that when some hear have done that, you seem to always object to their "not showing love of Christ, being judgemental, not liking prsident due to his skin color" etc!

 

[Zaac]

The problem is that when some hear have done that, you seem to always object to their "not showing love of Christ, being judgemental,

When some here have done what? There's a distinct difference between pointing something out to someone as a sin and continuing to try and make a particular sin worse than all others as you tend to do.

That is very unrighteously judgmental and displays NOTHING of the love of Christ.

not liking prsident due to his skin color" etc!

If someone keeps talking about the man's skin color in a negative manner then I'll keep pointing out that the someone OBVIOUSLY has a problem with the man's skin color.:thumbs:

 

[HankD]

What has happened to the preaching of God's wrath?

We don't learn from the past:

Isaiah 30
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

The wrath of God and the love of God are connected...

God's love is not only a chocolate syrup hugs and kisses doctrine.

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

Jesus rebuked the pharisees and then said:

John 5:34 ... these things I say, that ye might be saved.

Yes, Jesus wanted the pharisees to be saved.
They wouldn't hear love so He preached wrath.
At least two of them came to the light.

HankD

 

[Zaac]

What has happened to the preaching of God's wrath?

We don't learn from the past:

Isaiah 30
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

:thumbs:

It's also a shame though that so many in the church can't get to the point of sharing God's love and His wrath because of the stank, nasty attitudes about ISSUES.

You lose your platform to speak to someone about God's love or any of His other attributes when you display none of that love.

 

[righteousdude2]

What has happened to preaching God's love?

Coming from you, and knowing you as I do .... I would expect nothing less. So let me say exactly what you would want me to say .... you are right CTB, God loves you. He loves me. He loves everybody. Everybody is going to heaven, because God would never judge anyone, or send anyone to hell! After all, He is the God of love!

With that said, let's all turn to the back of the hymnal and sing fifty verses of Kum By Yah as our ushers quietly pass among you, taking your offering and gifts. Once we have concluded this happy love fest, you will all be dismissed to head home to live happily ever after!


:smilewinkgrin: Said one parishioner to another on the way out? "Sure glad this guy doesn't preach the born-again doctrine like the last pastor?" "Yeah," said the second guy, "It took us a year to find this new preacher. I hope he doesn't become like the one we fired!" "I know," said the first guy, "Every time he preached we'd all feel like sinners in need of a Savior! And we can't have any more of that religious stuff! Now let's go home and enjoy our first wedding anniversary?" :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Salty]

Lets put this in language that even Zaac might understand.

Suppose you have a son - 10 years old. You find out he has been beating the 8 year old kids down the street.

Are you going to sit down with him and tell him how wonderful he is since he made you such a beautiful thing-ma-gig in art class. OR are you going to get serious and inform that what he did was wrong - and that behavior will no longer be tolerated?

This is the current situation in our country, people do not want to be told what they are doing is wrong. Its a "don't invade my space" "let me be my own person" and ect.

When we do not meet Gods standards, then changes must be made.

 

[righteousdude2]

Lets put this in language that even Zaac might understand.

Suppose you have a son - 10 years old. You find out he has been beating the 8 year old kids down the street.

Are you going to sit down with him and tell him how wonderful he is since he made you such a beautiful thing-ma-gig in art class. OR are you going to get serious and inform that what he did was wrong - and that behavior will no longer be tolerated?

This is the current situation in our country, people do not want to be told what they are doing is wrong. Its a "don't invade my space" "let me be my own person" and ect.

When we do not meet Gods standards, then changes must be made.

:applause::applause::applause:

 

[Zaac]

Lets put this in language that even Zaac might understand.

Suppose you have a son - 10 years old. You find out he has been beating the 8 year old kids down the street.

Are you going to sit down with him and tell him how wonderful he is since he made you such a beautiful thing-ma-gig in art class. OR are you going to get serious and inform that what he did was wrong - and that behavior will no longer be tolerated?

If all he ever hears from you is how wrong he was for beating 8 year olds and never hears anything of love from you, you let me know how that turns out because that nor the way some of you treat certain sins does NOT align itself with the way God's word says you are to approach people.

When we do not meet Gods standards, then changes must be made.

Let me put this in a manner that Salty can understand. God says that the truth must be delivered in LOVE, not saltiness.

That's the part that you and some others can't seem to comprehend because you're too busy trying to be right rather than genuinely trying to minister to people.

This is the current situation in our country, people do not want to be told what they are doing is wrong. Its a "don't invade my space" "let me be my own person" and ect.

Interesting. That's the same tact a lot of folks on here take when I tell you that your behavior is unGodly.

It is possible to be firm AND loving. But some of you have got the worst attitudes I've ever encountered. And it's sad.

The current situation in our country and the world is the result of US, not them, not doing what WE are supposed to do. Perhaps this is why God tells us to judge those within the church.

Too many in the church are absent any displays of the love of Christ. SO that kind of makes it difficult to be able to speak to someone else about their sin.

The less love coming from those who are supposed to influence society for Christ, the more society looks to spin out of control.

It ain't rocket science. But some of you still can't seem to grasp it.

 

[PreachTony]

Let me put this in a manner that Salty can understand. God says that the truth must be delivered in LOVE, not saltiness.

That's the part that you and some others can't seem to comprehend because you're too busy trying to be right rather than genuinely trying to minister to people.

Zaac, I agree that there should be God's Love apparent in preaching. When a parent loves a child, they don't shower that child with nothing but praise and accolades. They teach the child the way it should walk, not sparing the rod (figuratively and literally) in order to offer correction.

Look at 2 Timothy, Chapter 4:

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Timothy is instructed in preaching and is told to do three things:
1. Reprove
2. Rebuke
3. Exhort
Only one of those three is viewed as a "positive" from a worldly point of view. Someone walking in the light of God's will will recognize that being reproved and rebuked is healthy for a Christian to maintain the straight and narrow.

Paul even reproved Peter for his actions amongst the Jews and Gentiles, and how he treated each group differently. It's not viewed as a bad thing to preach a strong message, unless you stand in need of repentance, in which case a strong message may step on your toes a bit.

Consider this:

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Preaching God's wrath to a sinful world is quite similar to preaching chastisement to a believer or to a church. It's a requirement. It should not overshadow the preaching of God's love, because if you recognize it for what it truly is, you'll recognize that it is part of God's love.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac, I agree that there should be God's Love apparent in preaching. When a parent loves a child, they don't shower that child with nothing but praise and accolades. They teach the child the way it should walk, not sparing the rod (figuratively and literally) in order to offer correction.

Absolutely. The love and correction that comes from a parent is supposed to mirror the love and correction that comes from Christ.

Look at 2 Timothy, Chapter 4:


Timothy is instructed in preaching and is told to do three things:
1. Reprove
2. Rebuke
3. Exhort
Only one of those three is viewed as a "positive" from a worldly point of view. Someone walking in the light of God's will will recognize that being reproved and rebuked is healthy for a Christian to maintain the straight and narrow.

Agreed. But as you noted, the word is used to do this for CHRISTIANS.

It should be used to illuminate the need for a Savior with the non-Christian.

Paul even reproved Peter for his actions amongst the Jews and Gentiles, and how he treated each group differently. It's not viewed as a bad thing to preach a strong message, unless you stand in need of repentance, in which case a strong message may step on your toes a bit.

Agreed again. But in preaching a strong message, you got to take it to the Cross and the love of Christ if you're dealing with non-Christians.

Consider this:


Preaching God's wrath to a sinful world is quite similar to preaching chastisement to a believer or to a church. It's a requirement. It should not overshadow the preaching of God's love, because if you recognize it for what it truly is, you'll recognize that it is part of God's love.

Absolutely agree.:thumbs:

 

[Salty]

If all he ever hears from you is how wrong he was for beating 8 year olds and never hears anything of love from you, you let me know how that turns out because that nor the way some of you treat certain sins does NOT align itself with the way God's word says you are to approach people. ....

If ALL he hears from you is how wonderful he is - then he will keep beating that 8 yo up.

The Problem with many of our churches is that all we hear is God Loves you. Preaching against Sin appears to be a lost cause in many churches today.