What Identifies A Christian As A Baptist?

[kyredneck]

All scriptural baptisms were immersion. Sprinkling is what is not scriptural.

But there is no indication as plainly written that water baptism has to be done by immersion.

You'd think something as important as many believe baptism to be that there would be some concise 'how to' instructions for it.

If I wanted to build an ark like Noah built, or one like Moses built, or perform any of the ceremonial/sacrificial rites contained in the law I can find concise instructions on how to do it, but there's no such 'how to' instructions for Baptism.

 

[kyredneck]

This is a nonsense question.

No it isn't.

 

[John of Japan]

You'd think something as important as many believe baptism to be that there would be some concise 'how to' instructions for it.

If I wanted to build an ark like Noah built, or one like Moses built, or perform any of the ceremonial/sacrificial rites contained in the law I can find concise instructions on how to do it, but there's no such 'how to' instructions for Baptism.

It's not complicated, unlike the ark or the OT sacrificial system. Win them, baptize (immerse them in water) in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Don't forget to bring them up out of the water (like one assistant pastor I heard of who, baptizing the first time, said the whole formula with the old guy under water). I baptized in Japan in my home-made baptistry in the tiny kitchen of our Yokohama apartment. (The wife and I had been up until midnight chasing leaks! )

Want to baptize them three times, one for each of the trinity? Fine. Dunk them forward? No problem. Just do it in a place with deep enough water to immerse them (Acts 8:36), and do it in the name of the trinity.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Actually, to be biblical baptism must be by immersion. The very word "baptize" in the Greek is baptizo (βαπτίζω) means "dip, immerse" (Gingrich Lexicon and any other lexicon, including one I have in Japanese). Likewise, the noun "baptism" (baptisma, βάπτισμα) means "immersion."

When sprinkling or pouring is done pretending to be baptism, the beautiful symbolic meaning of being buried and raised with Christ (Romans 6:3-4) is lost.

I see Romans 6:3-4 as referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost rather than water baptism.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Sharing a post from another thread in my search for water baptism by sprinkling.

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

There are a lot of verses regarding the sprinkling of the blood that cleanses as well but I will not bother with that aspect.

The Book of Numbers also list a few references of the actual sprinkling of water for several cleansing purposes. Numbers 8:7 & Numbers 19:13 & Numbers 19:18-21

Nothing about sprinkling of water as a form of water baptism in the New Testament yet.

The one below is not to be taken as such an example.

Hebrews 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

I am sure Hebrews 10:21-23 has nothing to do with water baptism, but the baptism with the Holy Ghost.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Anyway, so far, I find no New Testament example of water baptism by sprinkling but then again, it is the baptism with the Holy Ghost that counts for salvation rather than any specific form of water baptism to be insisted upon for discipleship.

 

[ChristB4Us]

This is a nonsense question.

It is like saying it, If water immersion is not necessary for salvation then why strain at the gnat for specifying water immersion by immersion when nowhere in any epistle of the New Testament does it say it has to be done in that way?

Although there are scriptures testifying to actual water baptism by immersion, I believe some of those scriptural references are being misapplied because it is really about the baptism with the Holy Ghost.

I see Romans 6:3-4 as referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost rather than water baptism.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Sharing a post from another thread in my search for water baptism by sprinkling.

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

There are a lot of verses regarding the sprinkling of the blood that cleanses as well but I will not bother with that aspect.

The Book of Numbers also list a few references of the actual sprinkling of water for several cleansing purposes. Numbers 8:7 & Numbers 19:13 & Numbers 19:18-21

Nothing about sprinkling of water as a form of water baptism in the New Testament yet.

The one below is not to be taken as such an example.

Hebrews 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

I am sure Hebrews 10:21-23 has nothing to do with water baptism, but the baptism with the Holy Ghost like Romans 6:3-4.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Anyway, so far, I find no New Testament example of water baptism by sprinkling but then again, it is the baptism with the Holy Ghost that counts for salvation rather than any specific form of water baptism to be insisted upon for discipleship.

It seems the tagging system is not working for why I feel the need to repost the same kind of response.

 

[ChristB4Us]

No, Romans 6 must refer to water baptism, or else the symbolic language is useless. There is nothing in pneumatology that symbolically means we are buried with Christ and raised with Him.

And I must say, if you do not believe that immersion (the very meaning of the word "baptize") is not a sine qua non, you are not a Baptist. Sorry!

Do reconsider that because by implying that Romans 6:3-4 is only referring to water baptism by immersion rather than the baptism with the Holy Ghost, then are you limiting salvation by water baptism by immersion?

I see Romans 6:3-4 as referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost rather than water baptism.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

You say it is symbolic but I read the result of said baptism for why I believe it is the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

 

[ChristB4Us]

You'd think something as important as many believe baptism to be that there would be some concise 'how to' instructions for it.

If I wanted to build an ark like Noah built, or one like Moses built, or perform any of the ceremonial/sacrificial rites contained in the law I can find concise instructions on how to do it, but there's no such 'how to' instructions for Baptism.

I agree. It is found wanting in scripture for those insisting water baptism can only be done by immersion.

Although in my search, I have found verses in the Old Testament for the sprinkling of water that cleanses and even ones for blood that cleanses, but there is none in the New Testament albeit one has to wonder if the depths of water is always available for water baptism by immersion.

Since His hand is not shortened to save all who believe in Him without water baptism, then I would have to say that He is able to enable a saved believer to follow Him as His disciple without water baptism as well, regardless of the type of water baptism.

 

[John of Japan]

Nothing about sprinkling of water as a form of water baptism in the New Testament yet.

The one below is not to be taken as such an example.

Hebrews 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

I am sure Hebrews 10:21-23 has nothing to do with water baptism, but the baptism with the Holy Ghost.

Me, too, because the Greek word there is not the word for baptizing, but simply "washing" (louo, λοὐω).

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Again, a different word for "washing" (loutron, λουτρόν) not the word for baptism.

Anyway, so far, I find no New Testament example of water baptism by sprinkling but then again, it is the baptism with the Holy Ghost that counts for salvation rather than any specific form of water baptism to be insisted upon for discipleship.

And you will not find any baptism by sprinkling anywhere in the Bible.

 

[37818]

@ChristB4Us,
Our English word "baptized" is a transliteration.


Matthew 3:6, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Greek,
καὶ ἐβαπτίζοντο ἐν τῷ Ἰορδάνῃ ποταμῷ ὑπ' αὐτοῦ ἐξομολογούμενοι τὰς ἁμαρτίας αὐτῶν

The Literal Standard Version,
and they were immersed in the Jordan by him, confessing their sins.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Me, too, because the Greek word there is not the word for baptizing, but simply "washing" (louo, λοὐω).

Again, a different word for "washing" (loutron, λουτρόν) not the word for baptism.

Which God does as man cannot have a hand in what God does.

And you will not find any baptism by sprinkling anywhere in the Bible.

Such as the commandment to do water baptism by immersion only is not given nor emphasized as the proper mode of water baptism. If the early New Testament churches, let alone the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of the Church, saw the need to emphasize that, He would make sure the new believers and the churches down through the centuries would know that.

Even in the warning to the 5 of the 7 churches to repent or else and the exhortation to the 2 of the 7 churches to hold fast or else, we are not seeing the offense of not doing water baptism by immersion in that Book of Revelation and yet the majority of Christian denomination are hardly practicing it in these latter days.

 

[ChristB4Us]

@ChristB4Us,
Our English word "baptized" is a transliteration.

Matthew 3:6, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Greek,
καὶ ἐβαπτίζοντο ἐν τῷ Ἰορδάνῃ ποταμῷ ὑπ' αὐτοῦ ἐξομολογούμενοι τὰς ἁμαρτίας αὐτῶν

The Literal Standard Version,
and they were immersed in the Jordan by him, confessing their sins.

I do not deny the scripture where they were "able" to hold water baptism by immersion but I do not believe that it is a commandment to specifically do that in order to be His disciples as a public witness.

I doubt very much His disciples would avoid areas where there is no depths of water to do a water baptism by immersion before preaching the gospel.

Just like not every moment in the Book of Acts did saved believers speak in tongues when having received the Holy Spirit.

 

[37818]

Brother @ChristB4Us,
Typically there is different Biblical interpretations by Baptists on baptism/immersion.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Brother @ChristB4Us,
Typically there is different Biblical interpretations by Baptists on baptism/immersion.

Okay. Thanks for that information.

 

[Charlie24]

Water baptism can be difficult to understand. Of course, I don't expect everyone to agree, no two of us will agree on everything from A-Z in Scripture.

Paul said there in one baptism (Eph. 4:5) and that one baptism is not immersion in water, it's the immersion "into Christ." It's a spiritual baptism, with water baptism being the type/symbol of the baptism "into the death of Christ" (Rom. 6:3).

Col. 2:9-13
"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

The "circumcision made without hands" is what takes places instantly when we place faith in Christ, we are born-again. It's the "circumcision of Christ," done in the spiritual realm.

At that instant we are "buried with Him in in baptism" a spiritual baptism, being immersed "into Christ."

"Risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God," again in the spiritual realm.

We are totally immersed into Christ spiritually at the instant of salvation, and to meet the type/symbol of this spiritual baptism in water baptism, it should be a full immersion in water.

 

[37818]

Paul said there in one baptism (Eph. 4:5) and that one baptism is not immersion in water, it's the immersion "into Christ." It's a spiritual baptism, with water baptism being the type/symbol of the baptism "into the death of Christ" (Rom. 6:3).

Ephesians 4:4-6, . . .
. . . one body . . .
. . . one Spirit . . .
. . . one hope . . .
. . . One Lord . . .
. . . one faith . . .
. . . one baptism . . .
. . . One God and Father of all . . .

We do not count the body twice. We do not count the Spirit twice. We do not count the faith twice. So we do not count the baptism twice. There is only the one God.

 

[Charlie24]

Ephesians 4:4-6, . . .
. . . one body . . .
. . . one Spirit . . .
. . . one hope . . .
. . . One Lord . . .
. . . one faith . . .
. . . one baptism . . .
. . . One God and Father of all . . .

We do not count the body twice. We do not count the Spirit twice. We do not count the faith twice. So we do not count the baptism twice. There is only the one God.

All of it "to keep the unity of the Spirit," Eph. 4:3

One body of believers
One Holy Spirit
One hope in Christ
One Lord Jesus Christ
One faith in what Christ did
One baptism = our salvation
One God the Father of all the saved

All of it is directly concerning our salvation.

 

[37818]

One baptism = our salvation

Water baptismal regeneration is a false gospel

 

[Charlie24]

Water baptismal regeneration is a false gospel

I agree! We are saved by grace through faith, just as Paul said.

The spiritual baptism as I explained earlier is our salvation.

It is the "one baptism" and the only salvation through our Lord.

 

[John of Japan]

Which God does as man cannot have a hand in what God does.

Such as the commandment to do water baptism by immersion only is not given nor emphasized as the proper mode of water baptism. If the early New Testament churches, let alone the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of the Church, saw the need to emphasize that, He would make sure the new believers and the churches down through the centuries would know that.

Even in the warning to the 5 of the 7 churches to repent or else and the exhortation to the 2 of the 7 churches to hold fast or else, we are not seeing the offense of not doing water baptism by immersion in that Book of Revelation and yet the majority of Christian denomination are hardly practicing it in these latter days.

Once again, the very word "baptism" means "immersion." To say in Greek that you have to baptize by immersion would be saying, "You have to immerse by immersion." That makes no sense. To say in Greek, "I baptize by immersion" would look like this: βαπτίζω βαπτισμῳ. It's the verb and noun version of the same meaning! To make it an imperative (command), as in "You must baptize by immersion" is almost the same. It would look like: βαπτίζεις βαπτισμῳ. So OF COURSE the Bible never commands "baptism by immersion" ("immersion by immersion").

To say that "sprinkling" or "pouring" is a mode of baptism is like saying, "Our church immerses by pouring" or "Our church immerses by sprinkling." That's absurd!

 

[37818]

.

The spiritual baptism as I explained earlier is our salvation.

It is the "one baptism" and the only salvation through our Lord.

There is in fact a disagreement what that "one baptism" refers to.
I am of the persuasion the term baptism without specifying being of the Spirit in some way is water immersion.