What if older Christians

[Earth Wind and Fire]

But do you ever ask what attracts a lost 80 year old, soon to face hell? Or those not in the upwardly mobile young adult demographic? What reaches our gang bangers? Our working poor?

ahhh, yes & all the time

For that matter, why do we focus on attracting ANY demographic group IF to do so we have to compromise what we believe is right?

Because the people running them are morons

Why are we not focusing on seeing the lost saved and the saved discipled, regardless of age. Would that not better serve the cause of Christ?

Amen .....agreed!

Really? Can you imagine the pain you cause when you blame all that goes wrong on the older folks who's blood sweat and tears built the church?

Why would sociopaths care? What they care about is themselves.

Let me suggest this: despite all the rhetoric out there, we have a Lord Who told us to go and preach the Word and make disciples. He also warned us we would not be popular in doing so. No generation has ever had it easy in winning the lost. In past generations you may have more of the lost in church, but it was still tough. We've BEEN FOCUSED since the 1960's on winning the younger folks to Christ. We've failed, and that miserably. What makes us think more of that focus will succeed?

Isnt it obvious....they "think" they need to replenish .....it's a numbers driven game!

Why not go forth as Spurgeons or Wesleys and preach the gospel to ALL people, letting them know up front church is not about their "felt needs" or their "youth culture" or "senior culture" but about Jesus Christ and Him crucified?

GO FORTH..... Spurgeon, Wesley, Whitfield??? Oh man, you mean a pastor has to actually get off his keister & go out to people!!! Horror of horrors. :laugh:

Not when you have an existing system that tells the sheeple that they must come to church on Sunday. Fill them with guilt & see what ROI you get outa that.

Why not acknowledge church isn't about age, or culture, or style but about serving Christ as opposed to being served by experts there to make your experience pleasurable?

you dont get it .....old people die & we gotta do something to obtain the numbers & the revenue! :BangHead:

 

[Luke2427]

What is sensationalistic is the accusation of agism.

I am familiar with ageism.

But, if I acknowledge repeatedly that I am not talking about ALL folks in a particular age bracket and I say repeatedly that there are many fine folks in that age bracket- how is it ageism?

Ageism means stereotyping according to age, if I remember correctly.

If acknowledging a general dichotomy of worldviews and ministry philosophies between the different generations is ageism, then I am guilty.

But I don't think there is anything sensationalistic about that.

 

[Revmitchell]

I am familiar with ageism.

But, if I acknowledge repeatedly that I am not talking about ALL folks in a particular age bracket and I say repeatedly that there are many fine folks in that age bracket- how is it ageism?

Ageism means stereotyping according to age, if I remember correctly.

If acknowledging a general dichotomy of worldviews and ministry philosophies between the different generations is ageism, then I am guilty.

But I don't think there is anything sensationalistic about that.

Tying it to age is sensationalistic. This is about personal preferences not age. No one cares what their age is. And no one is stereotyping anyone.

 

[Revmitchell]

The op and its author is a prime example of why churches are dying. It is also in direct conflict with Paul who said:


1Co_9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

But you will not find any scripture to back up the op or its false accusation of agism.

 

[nodak]

Sorry, but I don't believe I'm espousing what causes churches to die. Remember, most of those dying churches are NEW PLANTS founded by younger men right out of school.

Let's imagine a gaggle of senior citizens sitting around decrying that the young whippersnappers need to leave the churches to the seniors. Who wants them anyway? Let them just mail in the tithe checks and leave us alone? Would that be ageism? Methinks it would, so reversing it is that also.

We just took spring break with a younger person in our family, and visited a part of the country where there is a major oil boom. It is also a part of the country where many oldsters go to retire.

Some of our family live there, and I learned a thing or three about their most thriving churches.

Yes, old people do die. But guess what? Much of that rhetoric about old people killing churches does not take into account the truth of today's "old people". Most of them are not sitting on their duffs being gripey in their 70's.

Many folks in their 70's and 80's are still running corporations, running ranches, running civic organizations, and running marathons. Seriously, think we should make the church a special place where their gifts and talents are not needed anymore? That'll fly about like telling a guy in his late 70's he needs to deed the ranch to his son now or horror of horrors, the boy won't ranch.

No, in that specific area they are utilizing their seniors at record pace. Older preachers, teachers, deacons, leaders, the whole shooting match. Younger adults serve under and alongside them, being schooled and taught rather than handed the reins. Their churches are chocked full of younger adults and teens and children. They ARE reaching the younger folks. No "missing generation" there!

Part of the attitude seems to be that they know the seniors in office, so to speak, know what to do and how to get'er done. Once younger people serve under them long enough to prove their abilities, they get their shot in due time. Of course, that due time will probably begin arriving somewhere in their 40's or 50's. Down there it is called "paying your dues" whether we are talking leading the local church or running the local hospital or heading up the local Lion's club.

It works. I take full blame for my generation (I'm in my 60's) getting it all twisted and backwards focusing on one demographic group, the young adults. Not just the young adults, mind you, but only the well educated upwardly mobile ones.

We goofed. We messed up. Don't make our mistake. Take Christ to the world and stop trying to figure out how to make a good living from the church.

 

[Revmitchell]

The fact that a church has its older folks paying the bills is clear indication in and of itself that the church is dying. It shows the older folks at some point has tragically failed to reproduce themselves and now do not have enough of the younger generation to support it equally. Trying to play catch up after this tragic failure by the older folks will mean every one must have a kingdom mind, be flexible, and be willing to change some things to reach the next generation so the church can sustain itself beyond the older generation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The fact that a church has its older folks paying the bills is clear indication in and of itself that the church is dying. It shows the older folks at some point has tragically failed to reproduce themselves and now do not have enough of the younger generation to support it equally. Trying to play catch up after this tragic failure by the older folks will mean every one must have a kingdom mind, be flexible, and be willing to change some things to reach the next generation so the church can sustain itself beyond the older generation.

Yea.....good luck with that.

 

[exscentric]

Goodness, and all this time I thought it was Christ that was going to build His church.

Also thought it was the Holy Spirit that was going to lead and guide.

Also thought "church" was about being a body not divisions by age.

Seems all three are being left out across the country.

Just wonderin why it is so okay that church plants die but terrible when an old folks church dies. Any church dieing reflects upon the God that it was raised up to.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Goodness, and all this time I thought it was Christ that was going to build His church.

Also thought it was the Holy Spirit that was going to lead and guide.

Also thought "church" was about being a body not divisions by age.

Seems all three are being left out across the country.

Really, point that unicorn out to me.

 

[exscentric]

I think it is just a little above your head and to the right a tad

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think it is just a little above your head and to the right a tad

Silly me.....I guess I just never viewed church as a mystical & magical place (and I should be ashamed having been Catholic) LOL

 

[nodak]

Again, it is a myth that the churches that are dying are only the ones doing things "the old way." All sorts of churches are dying. Some are traditional, some are cutting edge. Most of those church plants set up so the younger people can run them die. And at a faster rate than established churches.

Yes, new church starts do appear at first to be better at evangelism, but they have a very hard time becoming able to self sustain.

It isn't always a sign, if older folks are the financial mainstay of a church, that they have failed to pass on the faith to the younger generation. In the area of which I spoke, the young people ARE being reached, ARE in church, and ARE financially faithful. But the older folks have a lifetime of savings under their belts, are very generous, and have more discretionary money available to them.

How would you handle this scenario:

Church has had the same 5 ladies teaching Sunday School the past 30 years. They are willing to continue doing so, or willing to retire and let younger folks teach the children. Newby associate preacher's idea was to let them teach, since the younger women are "too busy at their jobs and families", but appoint a young woman as their SS director. One who hasn't ever taught a day of SS in her life. Seasoned preacher's idea was to offer either the younger women take over teaching with a seasoned woman to direct them or leave the experienced teachers to continue what they are doing.

Final decision was to select one of the older women as director, with a younger woman to assist. Some of the older women still teach as only a couple of younger women volunteered to step up to the plate and serve.

Notice the senior women were willing to step aside for younger teachers--probably happily They were also willing to continue teaching. So why on earth, if no younger women had been willing to teach but there had been younger women willing to become directors, would you choose to do so?

It is the same with deacons. There the older folks seem quite willing to serve or step aside BUT ONLY when there are well qualified younger men ALREADY serving the church faithfully to choose from among. If the younger folks want a praise team and band (more the idea of boomers, not the younger by the way) AND are willing to put in the long hours of practice and serve, they can have it. IF, as is often the case in more rural areas, that would mean hiring the same band that plays the bars on Saturday night, or recruiting their band members to volunteer for church on Sunday, it probably won't happen assuming there are already pianists serving the church faithfully.

It really seems a tactic of Satan to divide the church by age. Some of the younger posters here seem to have encountered some senior saints that were less than saintly. And so now they come across as very denigrating and dismissive of all senior saints.

I would suggest that church should ideally be the family of God. Every family has it's share of old coots, young whippersnappers, and everyone in between.

It ceases to be a family when the old destroy the young or the young shoot the old.

Maybe instead of saying things like "I didn't get a thing from that pastor, he was too old. I met a younger pastor and learned a lot" we might try actually learning from the geezer. He might actually know more than we do

And just remember--those geezers didn't just graduate school and/or get saved and immediately step into church leadership. It takes time. You have to earn the right to be heard by living out what you preach or teach. And that really does take time.

And maybe the ideas you have and the change you want to make are wonderful ideas and wonderful changes. Maybe the seniors in the church will listen to you IF you actually listen to them when they oppose an idea or a change. You might have 50 great ideas and 1 stinker. They may oppose you on the stinker. Refusing to learn from them will probably mean they won't listen when you bring up the other 50.

And every day you complain about the seniors set in their ways opposing progress and killing the church, consider this: you are one day closer to being old yourself. Treat your seniors members the way you want the current crop of teens to treat you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Again, it is a myth that the churches that are dying are only the ones doing things "the old way." All sorts of churches are dying. Some are traditional, some are cutting edge. Most of those church plants set up so the younger people can run them die. And at a faster rate than established churches.

Yes, new church starts do appear at first to be better at evangelism, but they have a very hard time becoming able to self sustain.

It isn't always a sign, if older folks are the financial mainstay of a church, that they have failed to pass on the faith to the younger generation. In the area of which I spoke, the young people ARE being reached, ARE in church, and ARE financially faithful. But the older folks have a lifetime of savings under their belts, are very generous, and have more discretionary money available to them.

How would you handle this scenario:

Church has had the same 5 ladies teaching Sunday School the past 30 years. They are willing to continue doing so, or willing to retire and let younger folks teach the children. Newby associate preacher's idea was to let them teach, since the younger women are "too busy at their jobs and families", but appoint a young woman as their SS director. One who hasn't ever taught a day of SS in her life. Seasoned preacher's idea was to offer either the younger women take over teaching with a seasoned woman to direct them or leave the experienced teachers to continue what they are doing.

Final decision was to select one of the older women as director, with a younger woman to assist. Some of the older women still teach as only a couple of younger women volunteered to step up to the plate and serve.

Notice the senior women were willing to step aside for younger teachers--probably happily They were also willing to continue teaching. So why on earth, if no younger women had been willing to teach but there had been younger women willing to become directors, would you choose to do so?

It is the same with deacons. There the older folks seem quite willing to serve or step aside BUT ONLY when there are well qualified younger men ALREADY serving the church faithfully to choose from among. If the younger folks want a praise team and band (more the idea of boomers, not the younger by the way) AND are willing to put in the long hours of practice and serve, they can have it. IF, as is often the case in more rural areas, that would mean hiring the same band that plays the bars on Saturday night, or recruiting their band members to volunteer for church on Sunday, it probably won't happen assuming there are already pianists serving the church faithfully.

It really seems a tactic of Satan to divide the church by age. Some of the younger posters here seem to have encountered some senior saints that were less than saintly. And so now they come across as very denigrating and dismissive of all senior saints.

I would suggest that church should ideally be the family of God. Every family has it's share of old coots, young whippersnappers, and everyone in between.

It ceases to be a family when the old destroy the young or the young shoot the old.

Maybe instead of saying things like "I didn't get a thing from that pastor, he was too old. I met a younger pastor and learned a lot" we might try actually learning from the geezer. He might actually know more than we do

And just remember--those geezers didn't just graduate school and/or get saved and immediately step into church leadership. It takes time. You have to earn the right to be heard by living out what you preach or teach. And that really does take time.

And maybe the ideas you have and the change you want to make are wonderful ideas and wonderful changes. Maybe the seniors in the church will listen to you IF you actually listen to them when they oppose an idea or a change. You might have 50 great ideas and 1 stinker. They may oppose you on the stinker. Refusing to learn from them will probably mean they won't listen when you bring up the other 50.

And every day you complain about the seniors set in their ways opposing progress and killing the church, consider this: you are one day closer to being old yourself. Treat your seniors members the way you want the current crop of teens to treat you.

Well said!:thumbs:

 

[nodak]

Anyone see the article in Christianity Today re "Aging out of Church?"

Discusses much of what we have spoken of here. The comment stream, if you get the article in your email, is telling.

It is easy to judge ANY age group if they drop out of church, calling them consumerist Christians or sticking our noses in the air and telling them church isn't about them, or come not to be served but to serve.

But realistically, people will not continue to partake of a group where they are made to feel unwelcome, are not allowed to serve meaningfully, and are marginalized.

Just as our country grays, which means the fastest growing group to reach is NOT the younger adults, we seem to be driving boomers out of church intentionally.

If you want to get a taste of churches that are not marginalizing any age group, check out the websites of First Baptist Church Artesia NM or First Baptist Church Bloomfield NM.