What in the world is a homosexual offender?

[Claudia_T]

I don't see where scripture distinguished which laws Christ "fulfilled". How did you determine it was ceremonial vs. moral law?

The lamb for the usual sacrifice was let free...

Matthew 27:
50: Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51: And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom

At the moment in which Christ died, there were priests ministering in the temple before the veil which separated the holy from the most holy place. Suddenly they felt the earth tremble beneath them, and the veil of the temple , a strong rich drapery that had been renewed yearly, was rent in twain from top to bottom, the priest drops his knife and the sacrificial lamb runs away free... because Jesus was the Lamb just slain... the ceremonial laws involved the sacrifice of the lamb


..That's my Church's belief.


Claudia

 

[LeBuick]

Claudia_T,

This Baptist pastor believes that God's Moral Law (the 10 commandments, among others) is still in effect today. What Christ "fulfilled" was the Ceremonial Law - the Jewish sacrificial system. That's why we don't bring our goats, bulls, etc and sacrifice them any more. That law was fulfilled in the death of the "Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world."

I wasn't twisting your words, I was pointing out what conclusion one might make from the way you said, "still in effect". Effect is the result and the result of not keeping the law was etc... I might be acting to nit picky... I like your breakdown view of the Law...

Claudia = The renting of the vail I agree for the most part. However, the porpose of the vail was to separate a place to be holy. This was where the presence of God was and is where the high priest only could come before the Lord on behalf of Israel. It was rent from top to bottom meaning it was rent from heaven to the earth. This is God removing his requirement which now allows each of to come freely and boldly before God instead of via our high priest which is Jesus. We still say in the name of Jesus.

I don't recall this part, is it in the Bible?

At the moment in which Christ died, there were priests ministering in the temple <snip> the priest drops his knife and the sacrificial lamb runs away free... because Jesus was the Lamb just slain... the ceremonial laws involved the sacrifice of the lamb

I know Jesus was the Lamb sacrificed for the sins of the world and his death is final meaning it atoned past, present and future sins. It also removed the guilty stain which the previous atonement did not.

I'm not positive ceremonial law was done away with. If what you say is right, what happened to the other ceremonies? This might explain one ceremony which was the atonement but what about the others? You still see reference to the passover in the Acts of the Apostles which often makes me wonder if the early Jewish believers didn't still observe those occasions. We know Jesus observed the passover but he was a Jew and not a Christian. I know the Gentile world never observed it but some beliee his disciples continued to observe the passover until their death.

 

[Helen]

There are two rather clear distinctions between the law as stated in the Ten Commandments and the law given to the theocracy of old Israel.

1. The Ten Commandments can be kept individually without societal sanction or enforcement; the law for the Israelites was a requirement for them as a society and required a culture to live and enforce it.

2. Right after the Ten Commandments are given, in Exodus 20:22, "The the Lord said to Moses, 'Tell the Israelites this:....'" -- what follows is then for the Israelites in particular.

One more note. It is fairly clear that the laws which were later known at the Ten Commandments were already known and in effect before Moses. In Genesis 9 the Lord commands capital punishment for murder. The Sabbath is known before the Lord gives the Ten Commandments as is clear from the gathering of manna in the wilderness. The necessity of worshiping God and God only is clear from the incidents between Moses and Pharaoh, as well as from indications all through Genesis. What the Ten Commandments may have been is God writing in stone, Himself, the basic law for all mankind, for even though it was evidently known before, as is our tendency as humans, we added and added to it, the same way the Pharisees did later. In effect, God may have been saying, to all men, "This! Just THIS!"

And it's certainly enough!

But after Exodus 20:21, what we see is God establishing the law for the theocracy of Israel and not for all human beings everywhere.

Edit: Passover was not part of the ceremonial law, or law of sacrifices. It was a separate command given by God to the Hebrews as a whole upon leaving Egypt, as a remembrance. Therefore they continued to celebrate it long after the theocracy was destroyed.

 

[LeBuick]

One more note. It is fairly clear that the laws which were later known at the Ten Commandments were already known and in effect before Moses. In Genesis 9 the Lord commands capital punishment for murder..

I agree there were "laws" from the Priesthood of Melchezidec. I don't know about the 10 commandments. Most clearly because Abram paid tithes and so did Cain and Abel. You also mentioned capitol punishment. This priesthood is the order by which Christ established his Priesthood.

Hebrews 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

There were some laws or practices that were purely established by God who was dealing directly with his chosen people which was/is Israel. These were said to be part of the Aaron Priesthood. With the change in priesthood there had to be some adjustment to law.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

One common thinking is we completely converted back to the priesthood of Melchisedec. These are people who say we have Jesus and Jesus done away with the "LAW" etc... If that were so, then most of the OT would have no bearing on todays believers.

I wouldn't go nearly that far. We know what God desires of his believers from laws given in the Aaron priesthood and I feel to be "pleasing" to God we should do all we can to live according to his word. If not, we continually crucify our savior... Ii also feel that once we are transformed by the renewing of our minds, we no longer have a desire to do things that displease God.

Are we still tempted, YES.
Do we give in sometimes, unfortunately YES. (especially our thoughts)
Does this displease us as well as it displeases our Lord and Savior???

 

[xdisciplex]

But what if a gay person becomes a christian and is still gay? What is she supposed to do then?
Or does God automatically cure all gays which convert?

But where exactly is the difference between being gay and lusting after women?
When you become a christian you also don't automatically stop lusting after women. Then why should a gay person automatically stop being gay? Does this mean that a christian who is gay is still not saved because he's still gay and gays cannot be saved?

 

[El_Guero]

Let me get this straight . . . someone is confused about 'her' sexuality . . . and you think her confusion is the same as God's naturally given sexual desire being used in a sinful manner?

Yep . . . someone is confused . . .

But, I do not think that God, His Word, or His people are 'confused' on the issue.

But what if a gay person becomes a christian and is still gay? What is she supposed to do then?
Or does God automatically cure all gays which convert?

But where exactly is the difference between being gay and lusting after women?
When you become a christian you also don't automatically stop lusting after women. Then why should a gay person automatically stop being gay? Does this mean that a christian who is gay is still not saved because he's still gay and gays cannot be saved?

 

[xdisciplex]

I have no clue what you mean. But what would you do if you were gay?
I wonder what kind of stuff you'd be saying if you simply weren't into women but into men. What would you do then?
Imagine being heterosexual was a sin and being gay was normal could you simply stop being into women and become gay on demand?

I don't believe in the "being gay is a choice" theory. It doesn't really convince me.
I think some christians are making this way too easy. If being gay was a choice then why are there gays which suffer from being gay and which even tried to cure themselves by marrying and which are still gay?

 

[LeBuick]

Let me get this straight . . . someone is confused about 'her' sexuality . . . and you think her confusion is the same as God's naturally given sexual desire being used in a sinful manner?

Yep . . . someone is confused . . .

But, I do not think that God, His Word, or His people are 'confused' on the issue.

I think she is being tempted. The devil has found a weak spot in her armour and is working it.

 

[DHK]

I have no clue what you mean. But what would you do if you were gay?

I have no doubt that this thread will either close or be moved very quikly, as such openly explicit subjects should not be brought up in a family-friendly open forum, where much of the readers may be children.

However, in answer to your question:
What would you do if you were gay?--Stop being gay! That is simple enough. It is a choice. Just like any other sin. One chooses to sin. One is not forced to live a sinful life just like a drunk is forced to drink. He lives that way because he chooses.
A murderer chooses to kill. He doesnt have to; he chooses to.
An adulterer does the same thing. He makes the wrong sinflul choice--the choice and lifestyle of a harlot.
And so does the gay person. It is a choice that he makes. No one forces his hand.

I wonder what kind of stuff you'd be saying if you simply weren't into women but into men. What would you do then?

It has nothing to do with sex. It has everything to do with sin and sinful choicies. All illicit sex, sex outside the bounds of marriage is wrong and sinful. You choose to sin, and you will pay the consequence for sin. You choose to murder and you will pay the consequence for murder, both now and in eternity. However God can and will forgive any sin. A murderer (and a gay person) can repent, come to Christ, be born again, and their lives will be changed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The murderer will not live to murder any longer. The gay person will no longer live a gay lifestyle. If he does the Bible says he is not born again. For he that is born again cannot sin. This is what the verse means. It means you cannot remain in a sinful lifestyle.

Imagine being heterosexual was a sin and being gay was normal could you simply stop being into women and become gay on demand?

Being gay is and will always be sin. Adultery and fornication (heterosexual sins) are and will always be sin--sins just as bad as homosexuality. All of them are an abomination before God. God hates sin.

I don't believe in the "being gay is a choice" theory. It doesn't really convince me.

There are no theories here. All sin is a choice. The sin to commit either fornication, adultery or homosexuality is sin. There is no such thing as a "born gay." No such animal exists. Sin is a choice. If you choose not to believe what the Bible says, then that is up to you. You need to study Romans chapter one.

Romans 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

These were choices made by wicked individuals who rebelled against God. They were not born gay.

I think some christians are making this way too easy. If being gay was a choice then why are there gays which suffer from being gay and which even tried to cure themselves by marrying and which are still gay?

Right!
And drug addicts suffer because they choose to take crack or cocaine.
And smokers suffer because they choose to smoke.
Drunkards suffer because they choose to drink.
A family man suffers because he chose to have an affair with his secretary.
(I suppose that is respectable adultery, compared to the ugly sin of homosexuality.!) Ugh! What discrimination!!
Sin is sin in God's sight.

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

 

[BobRyan]

However, in answer to your question:
What would you do if you were gay?--Stop being gay! That is simple enough. It is a choice. Just like any other sin. ..
A murderer chooses to kill. He doesnt have to; he chooses to.
An adulterer does the same thing. He makes the wrong sinflul choice--the choice and lifestyle of a harlot.
And so does the gay person. It is a choice that he makes. No one forces his hand.

It has nothing to do with sex. It has everything to do with sin and sinful choicies.

Well said.

The one who struggles with lying, with stealing with envy, with hate and rage etc -- all these must confess that God's Law defines what they are doing as sin- confess it before Christ and submit to the "new Creation" where the Law of God is now to be written on the heart.

In Lev 18 the sin identified by this thread is declared to be an abomination for which even pagan nations would be destroyed.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[tragic_pizza]

But what if a gay person becomes a christian and is still gay? What is she supposed to do then?
Or does God automatically cure all gays which convert?

But where exactly is the difference between being gay and lusting after women?
When you become a christian you also don't automatically stop lusting after women. Then why should a gay person automatically stop being gay? Does this mean that a christian who is gay is still not saved because he's still gay and gays cannot be saved?

xdx, we Christians take a lot of pride in deciding when, how, and under what preconditions someone may come to Christ.

The fact is that Jesus does save gay people, transgendered people... Jesus even saves people like you and me.

A gay person has access to the same Word and Holy Spirit as you or I, and thus it's God's job to change a person, not yours or mine.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The way we use 'homosexual' today is to mean a person
whose lifestyle is 'homosexual'. But what a person is isn't
necessarily a sin. So a 'homosexual offender' is one who
practices their homosexual temptations.
Perhaps we can compare it to an alcoholic and a drunk.
The alcoholic is tempted to drink the stuff; a drunk drank it.

Back in 1984, when I first got on bulletin boards (bbs),
probably about 1989, I mean a Methodist minister.
He had a homosexual nature but hadn't been
an 'homosexual offender' for nine years.