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What is a hyper-Calvinist? How do we sustain our strong Calvinistic convictions without slipping into hyper-Calvinism?

Paleouss

Member
and skirting very close to God being causer of Sin and Fall

Great conversation JesusFan. Thank you for your time.

To me, the Supralapsarain model outright leads to God being the causer of Sin and the Fall.

In most circles, it is common for Christians when speaking about the fall of mankind, to refer to God’s decree of the fall as “permitted”. This language is typically used in consideration to the Bible depicting God as not responsible for evil, i.e., not the first cause. However, in the Supralapsarian model this turn of language cannot be used, at least not logically. If it is used within the Supralapsarian model, it would be done only verbally and without regard to logic or its contradiction to the model itself.

Just looking at the Supralapsarian Model
1. If God decrees the pristine elect and pristine reprobate first
C. Then God must decree a fall for the pristine-chosen-reprobate to fall

In other words, the Supralapsarian model has logically forced God to be the first cause of sin. God cannot be said to “permit” a fall, because He has already chosen a reprobate that must logically fall.

1. God sees some pristine and blameless in His sight
2. God decrees that these “some” that are pristine and blameless in His sight to be reprobate.
C. God must make a decree to make these pristine, reprobate.

This error appears clear. By choosing the reprobate prior to a fall, not only is God depicted as not considering divine justice, He is also logically depicted as the first cause of sin because He has selected a group from a pool of pristine beings that now must fall. Many have seemed to try and excuse this logical.

This theology clearly creates divine dissonance within the characteristics of God as depicted within the scripture.

Gotta go
Peace to you
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Great conversation JesusFan. Thank you for your time.

To me, the Supralapsarain model outright leads to God being the causer of Sin and the Fall.

In most circles, it is common for Christians when speaking about the fall of mankind, to refer to God’s decree of the fall as “permitted”. This language is typically used in consideration to the Bible depicting God as not responsible for evil, i.e., not the first cause. However, in the Supralapsarian model this turn of language cannot be used, at least not logically. If it is used within the Supralapsarian model, it would be done only verbally and without regard to logic or its contradiction to the model itself.

Just looking at the Supralapsarian Model
1. If God decrees the pristine elect and pristine reprobate first
C. Then God must decree a fall for the pristine-chosen-reprobate to fall

In other words, the Supralapsarian model has logically forced God to be the first cause of sin. God cannot be said to “permit” a fall, because He has already chosen a reprobate that must logically fall.

1. God sees some pristine and blameless in His sight
2. God decrees that these “some” that are pristine and blameless in His sight to be reprobate.
C. God must make a decree to make these pristine, reprobate.

This error appears clear. By choosing the reprobate prior to a fall, not only is God depicted as not considering divine justice, He is also logically depicted as the first cause of sin because He has selected a group from a pool of pristine beings that now must fall. Many have seemed to try and excuse this logical.

This theology clearly creates divine dissonance within the characteristics of God as depicted within the scripture.

Gotta go
Peace to you
They are indeed following to its logical conclusion how God sovereignty in their model affects salvation in full, taken to extreme. same way those holding to 'free will" theology logical extreme view ends with open Theism model of God
 
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