What is a liberal Christian?

[Emily]

John

I believe that the scripture concerning these areas are explicit..

if you are a good enough arguer, you can make the bible say anything, or make it NOT say anything you want.. I just read it word for word, and that is what it says to me.

 

[Jim1999]

Sometimes word for word can lead you astray. Then, if you ignore who is speaking and to whom, the whole message is distorted. Without factoring in culture of the day, the message can be shrouded. Also, we musr determine the moral values being expressed and how those moral values apply to-day. The simple rules of basic iterpretation.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Dr. Bob]

johnv - you are NOT serious that "pro-death" position of abortion isn't "doctrinal"? Can we all think of some verses here that talk about killing your baby? It is most assuredly "doctrine" and not interpretation.

And a woman pastor? THAT is not "doctrine"? (doctrinal heresy, but still doctrine). We are not talking women preaching here, but pastoring. So many clear-cut truths in the Word.

And while we're at it, "keepers at home" seems pretty straightforward teaching to me. (BTW, teaching = doctrine)

And while we're at it, are you vying for the title of the MOST liberal liberal on the BB since Joshua left?

If so, you're winning on my card!

 

[dianetavegia]

Agree Dr. Bob! Amen!

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Emily:
"Just curious... What is it that is sin if one is a feminist Christian or gay Christian? Since all Christians have sinned, do sin, and are sinners, then we're all either liberal Christians, or we're not."


I agree to a point..
however

the problem comes when churches endorse this lifestyle, when the bible clearly does not.

It is one thing to accept an ex-bank-robber into your congregation - it is 'another' to defend robbery as "an alternate lifestyle".


A "liberal Christian" is one who does not think the Bible is really "true". Someone that takes a "cut and paste" approach to it, and pretends that it does not mean what it says or that it is outdated.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
johnv - you are NOT serious that "pro-death" position of abortion isn't "doctrinal"?

I said nothing of the sort. The Bible is somewhat silent on the issue, though there are a few verses that imply such. We as Christians take our positions on abortion by way of intpretation of those certain verses. I agree with that interpretation, btw, but interpretation and doctrine are not interchangeable.

And a woman pastor? THAT is not "doctrine"? (doctrinal heresy, but still doctrine). We are not talking women preaching here, but pastoring. So many clear-cut truths in the Word. And while we're at it, "keepers at home" seems pretty straightforward teaching to me. (BTW, teaching = doctrine)

Nope, a biblical ban on women preaching or pastoring is not doctrinal. The oft-mentioned verses on the topic are not takgin within the context intended. It's no more doctrine than women wearing headcoverings. Now, since I'm a member of an SBC church, I'm bound to accept the SBC's ban on women preachers. But that ban is based on interpretation, not doctrine. Just as if I were a member of a church that required women to wear headcoverings, such would be an interpretation (not doctrine), that christians outside that church are not required to adhere to.

And while we're at it, are you vying for the title of the MOST liberal liberal on the BB since Joshua left?

Doubtful, since I'm generally anti-abortion, pro-death penalty, and anti-gay marriage. I am, however, staunchly against hyperfundamentalism, which alas has been spreading in Baptist congregations like a virus without a vaccine.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I am, however, staunchly against hyperfundamentalism, which alas has been spreading in Baptist congregations like a virus without a vaccine.

Hyperfundamentalism? Mind if I use this to start a new thread? I think (by implied definitions) that I may BE one!!

Here is a link - http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/48/605.html?

 

[Jude]

I'm a member of a 'liberal' Christian denomination. (Of course, if you're paying attention to the headlines, you understand that a new re-alignment is coming to Anglicanism, but I digress...). I've been around 'liberals' a long time. Jesus told Nicodemus, "Unless you are born again, you cannot SEE the Kingdom of God." (Jn.3.3). And herein lies the problem, they DON'T see at all! They are wrong on EVERY issue, whether doctrinal or moral. They bring death, not life. They are (as pointed out above)not Christians at all. 'Liberalism' (sorry, Dr Bob) is dying. Their numbers are dwindling. God is purifying His Church. And the strength of the Church in this 21st Century may not be in the west at all...

http://link.crosswalk.com/UM/T.asp?A1.45.19823.4.1573549

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Jude:
They bring death, not life. They are (as pointed out above)not Christians at all. 'Liberalism' . . is dying. Their numbers are dwindling. God is purifying His Church.

Let us pray that the prophecy of "dying" out of Liberalism is correct!

 

[Jim1999]

The old liberalism may be dying, but I am not sure its replacement is any better. Many still cling to the historical Jesus, selective scriptures and the power of positivism. Like Neo-orthodoxy, they are couching their theology in evangelical terminology.

The Anglican Church in England and in Canada have always had their sound men and women of God and the Book. The diocese where I live has many sound men and women who stand firm for the gospel, but 50 miles down the road, there is a different story.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[freeatlast]

Originally posted by Emily:
My definition of a liberal Christian, would be someone who sins, but calls it not a sin..

for instance

gay christians
feminist christians
etc

I have heard lately though, somebody call James Dobson a liberal Christian..
now

I have heard James Dobson called many many things, but liberal is not one of them.. Radical right winger is..


but.. is there an absolute definition of liberal here?

Hello Emily,
first let me say that there is no such thing as a "gay" christian. They are either a homosexual (gay) or a Christian, not both.

A liberal in my understanding is someone who reject that there are absolutes in living for the Lord as well as the need to repent to be saved. In many cases and possibly all cases these people are not really saved. Remember many will say Lord! Lord! Only to hear "I never knew you"

 

[Emily]

well.. I didnt mean literall Gay Christians..

I simply meant people who accept that these things are compatible.


Having said that however, I believe with 100% certainty, that just like all other sins, the temptation can very much be there if you are saved..

For instance, I am saved, but gluttony is my big struggle.. If I let myself give in to temptation, I would be on the upside of 300 pounds and letting my stomach lead my every move.. It is something I have to keep in check AT ALL TIMES, and I still fail from time to time.. This is not merely having a big appetite with me.. It is a complete perversion of food that I have, and it takes much self control and prayer to overcome this.

I believe that someone who was at one time acting out in their homosexual lifestyle, and then got saved.. they might still struggle with it.. and they might have to keep it in check.. I dont believe that a christian will have no temptation with sin.. even the big ones.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by freeatlast:
... that there is no such thing as a "gay" christian. They are either a homosexual (gay) or a Christian, not both.

I attend church with at least two gay Christians. They accept the teaching that a man having sex with another man is immoral, so they don't. They live a life of abstinence. These men that I know, btw, are virgins, so there's no sexual act to repent from. They don't entertain desires they have towards people of the same gender, so there's no "adultery in the heart" to repent from. They are homosexual, and they are Christian, and they are living moral lives.

Saying there's no such thing as a gay Christian is like saying there's no such thing as a gay alcoholic.

Ya might as well try and say there's no such thing as a Christian sinner.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Liberals, WHERE!!

I'd have to agree that a "liberal Christian" is a curious thing. I've always connected that with the person who goes to a church but sees it more as an aspect of culture rather than a means of worship - one who is "Christian" by birth but really not adherent to any doctrines thereof.

In scholarly circles the term liberal usually refers to those who deny what we consider to be the distinctives of Christianity - the very kerygma! Some liberals in biblical studies would be John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, Bart Ehrman, E P Sanders, and anyone connected with the Jesus Seminar.
Those described as moderates are usually those who adhere to the basic kerygmatic doctrines such as the virgin birth, the resurrection, and Jesus' deity - but who hold alot of other things such as biblical inerrrancy to be questionable. Such authors would include most Roman Catholics such as R E Brown, Joseph Fitzmyer, J P Meier and some other authors such as James Charlesworth.
Those described as conservatives usually hold with biblical reliability and many Christian traditions and interpret within this framework. Examples include Ben Witherington, N T Wright, F F Bruce, Craig Evans and others.
Fundamentalists (in scholarly circles) are those who hold to biblical literality and protestant distinctives above all and interpret within these guidelines only. Examples here include John Walvoord, Charles Ryrie, (ugh!) Clarence Larkin etc.