What is a pastor?

[AustinC]

Luk 15:4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?


Guys this verse has no context nor application to pastors chasing after members who take their ball and go home when they dont get their way. The context is made clear:


Luk 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.


The verse is talking about lost people. The word sinner is not a reference church members who vlaim yo know Christ. It is a clear reference to those who dont know Christ.

Let me be clear, the use of words like shepherd and sheep does not justify misapplying this verse to whatever agenda we may have. Applying it to pastors and church members is ripping it out of context and comitting violence to Gods word.


That kind of misapplication is what leads to a decline in churches.

Now, members leaving the church, just not coming, withholding tithes etc. is sin. When I do deal with those issues in the church I will be glad to hear them out but not until we deal with their sin problem first. This type if behavior is unacceptable, cannot be allowed as a manipulation tactic.

This kind of behavior can become contagious every time members dont get their way. Let me be clear, this kind of behavior 99% of the time is not honest hurt. It most often is a result if a consumer mentality. That is if they dont get what they came for they will go somewhere else to get it.

Now the one single issue that contributes to church growth has been church swapers. Now while there are dome who take their ball and go home there are 3 or 4 more issues within the church to deal with. There is time spent in prayer and the word, there is reaching the lost, etc. there are a hundred other things a pastor has to deal with demanding his time.


Now there are dome pastors who only preach and visit members. These are not really pastors they are chaplains. They have more time because they do so little.

Then there is balancing time between ministry and family. So chasing after consumer members is not high on my priority list.

Rev, was Jesus talking to people within the Mosaic Covenant who were a part of Israel, or was that one sheep a pagan from another nation?

The context is that the owner of the sheep cared for all 100. Jesus didn't include the world in this story. Of those 100 sheep, 1 went astray and was missing, having fallen into sin (Read Hebrews regarding the warnings). The owner went out in search and found that lost sheep.
With due respect for your calling, I disagree with your interpretation.

Luke 15:4-7
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

 

[Reynolds]

Luk 15:4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?


Guys this verse has no context nor application to pastors chasing after members who take their ball and go home when they dont get their way. The context is made clear:


Luk 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.


The verse is talking about lost people. The word sinner is not a reference church members who vlaim yo know Christ. It is a clear reference to those who dont know Christ.

Let me be clear, the use of words like shepherd and sheep does not justify misapplying this verse to whatever agenda we may have. Applying it to pastors and church members is ripping it out of context and comitting violence to Gods word.


That kind of misapplication is what leads to a decline in churches.

Now, members leaving the church, just not coming, withholding tithes etc. is sin. When I do deal with those issues in the church I will be glad to hear them out but not until we deal with their sin problem first. This type if behavior is unacceptable, cannot be allowed as a manipulation tactic.

This kind of behavior can become contagious every time members dont get their way. Let me be clear, this kind of behavior 99% of the time is not honest hurt. It most often is a result if a consumer mentality. That is if they dont get what they came for they will go somewhere else to get it.

Now the one single issue that contributes to church growth has been church swapers. Now while there are dome who take their ball and go home there are 3 or 4 more issues within the church to deal with. There is time spent in prayer and the word, there is reaching the lost, etc. there are a hundred other things a pastor has to deal with demanding his time.


Now there are dome pastors who only preach and visit members. These are not really pastors they are chaplains. They have more time because they do so little.

Then there is balancing time between ministry and family. So chasing after consumer members is not high on my priority list.

What about all the other Scripture that makes it plain the pastor is a shepherd? I provided link to compiled list. You don't consider yourself a shepherd or you don't think shepherds are to bring back lost sheep? Maybe a shepherd who does not deal with problem sheep?
Feeding sheep was only a tiny part of the shepherds job.

 

[Revmitchell]

What about all the other Scripture that makes it plain the pastor is a shepherd? I provided link to compiled list. You don't consider yourself a shepherd or you don't think shepherds are to bring back lost sheep? Maybe a shepherd who does not deal with problem sheep?
Feeding sheep was only a tiny part of the shepherds job.

I dont argue about the pastor being the under shepherd but that dont justify misusing that verse. Also dealing with problem sheep while is necessary doesnt make the case that a pastor has to run after people who take their ball and go home.

honestly you dont know what your asking.

 

[Reynolds]

I dont argue about the pastor being the under shepherd but that dont justify misusing that verse. Also dealing with problem sheep while is necessary doesnt make the case that a pastor has to run after people who take their ball and go home.

honestly you dont know what your asking.

I really do. I am not asking for pastors to go beg them back. As a shepherd, I believe the pastor should at least reach out to them. Might surprise you why some actually left. You might know why most leave, but one here and there might surprise you in their real reason.

One pastor I respect says that he believes many pastors won't do it because they think that they (the pastor) are why the sheep left and the pastor does not want to deal with personal rejection. He also said very few will admit that, even to themselves.

 

[Revmitchell]

I really do. I am not asking for pastors to go beg them back. As a shepherd, I believe the pastor should at least reach out to them. Might surprise you why some actually left. You might know why most leave, but one here and there might surprise you in their real reason.

One pastor I respect says that he believes many pastors won't do it because they think that they (the pastor) are why the sheep left and the pastor does not want to deal with personal rejection. He also said very few will admit that, even to themselves.

I dont know a single pastor who thinks that. I doubt he knows what other pastors wont admit to themselves. I learned long ago not to run around putting out fires. I dont have time for scorners.


I do have time to comfort those that are hurting, hang out with those who want to be there and are not trying to manipulate me by throwing a tantrum, etc. Disciple those that want to learn, study and preach the word, spend time in prayer, and that is just the tip of the iceburg.

There may on great occasion be those who are hurt. Im sure the feelins are real. That does not excuse thst kind of behavior.

see i think you and i see that behavior on two very different levels.

 

[Reynolds]

I dont know a single pastor who thinks that. I doubt he knows what other pastors wont admit to themselves. I learned long ago not to run around putting out fires. I dont have time for scorners.


I do have time to comfort those that are hurting, hang out with those who want to be there and are not trying to manipulate me by throwing a tantrum, etc. Disciple those that want to learn, study and preach the word, spend time in prayer, and that is just the tip of the iceburg.

There may on great occasion be those who are hurt. Im sure the feelins are real. That does not excuse thst kind of behavior.

see i think you and i see that behavior on two very different levels.

I don't know if we see the behavior on different levels or not. I simply do not understand how a shepherd would not care enough about a wayward sheep to at least call them on the phone.
If they are as bad as you make them out to be, maybe you should try to get them saved.

 

[Reynolds]

@Revmitchell
Are you glad God did not think you were too much trouble when you were a scoffer?
I am glad he had time for me when I was.

 

[Revmitchell]

Here is an addition :

“There are a lot of churches across the US looking for Pastors. In the job descriptions I read... each of them had a line that spoke of being evangelistic and reaching the community. Nothing wrong with this. Nothing at all.

The thing that comes to my mind is why is the church body not evangelizing while they do not have a pastor? Hey, maybe they are but the information continues to say... we want to reach our community and grow.

So my question are...

For the Pastor - Is your church being intentionally evangelistic? Are you setting the standard foe being evangelistic?

For the laity - Is your church being intentionally evangelistic? If so, would they stop if your pastor left? If not, why not?

I took a church 20+ years ago that said they wanted the pastor to be evangelistic, teach them to be evangelistic and help the church grow. Oh yeah, count me in was my response.

18 months later they asked me to resign or promise to stop evangelizing and baptizing people. If I promised, I could stay. I promised to keep sharing the gospel and I stayed. We lost 75% of our people. Many new believers got so hurt, they left confused.”


From another pastor, what say you

 

[Reynolds]

Here is an addition :

“There are a lot of churches across the US looking for Pastors. In the job descriptions I read... each of them had a line that spoke of being evangelistic and reaching the community. Nothing wrong with this. Nothing at all.

The thing that comes to my mind is why is the church body not evangelizing while they do not have a pastor? Hey, maybe they are but the information continues to say... we want to reach our community and grow.

So my question are...

For the Pastor - Is your church being intentionally evangelistic? Are you setting the standard foe being evangelistic?

For the laity - Is your church being intentionally evangelistic? If so, would they stop if your pastor left? If not, why not?

I took a church 20+ years ago that said they wanted the pastor to be evangelistic, teach them to be evangelistic and help the church grow. Oh yeah, count me in was my response.

18 months later they asked me to resign or promise to stop evangelizing and baptizing people. If I promised, I could stay. I promised to keep sharing the gospel and I stayed. We lost 75% of our people. Many new believers got so hurt, they left confused.”


From another pastor, what say you

The 18 months later paragraph lost me.

Most church members don't have a clue how to evangelize. You have to mentor them. Teaching them how does not work for most.

 

[Revmitchell]

The 18 months later paragraph lost me.
.

that was the whole point of posting it. What about it lost you

 

[Reynolds]

that was the whole point of posting it. What about it lost you

It said he had to promise not to evangelize or he would have to leave. He promised he would quit. Evangelized anyway. Church fell off by 75%.
I don't understand anything about that. Makes no sense to me. He lied? He kept evangelizing, but church still lost 75%?

 

[Revmitchell]

It said he had to promise not to evangelize or he would have to leave. He promised he would quit. Evangelized anyway. Church fell off by 75%.
I don't understand anything about that. Makes no sense to me. He lied? He kept evangelizing, but church still lost 75%?

No he didnt promise that. He also said new believers got hurt. It seems the old members didnt like all the new coming in and ran them off. Ive been there myself

 

[Reynolds]

No he didnt promise that. He also said new believers got hurt. It seems the old members didnt like all the new coming in and ran them off. Ive been there myself

I have seen it happen. When the new about outvoted the old in a church election, the new started getting picked off one family at a time.

Still a pastor should sheed the straying sheep.

I have been hurt a few times by pastors. Due to being in investigations most of my career and having advanced interrogation training, I also see things much quicker than most. I will honestly have to say that each time,vafter the dust settles, I was vindicated and shown to be right.
I guess the biggest incidence was when I found that the associate pastor had engaged in illegal activity and the senior pastor had covered up for him in the name of "pastoral confidence ". Me and my family took a beating over that one, but vindication finally came.