Brother Bob
New Member
I was interested what is the mind of this board about "being born again". What does it mean and "what" is born again, if you believe the saved are born again?
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What is being "born again"
- Thread starter Brother Bob
- Start date
Brother Bob said:
Dr. Rogers gave a great sermon on this subject. It's so powrful, I thought I would go look it up!
In the rebirth, just like in the natural birth, there is a ...
1) Conception: You were born naturally by sperm and egg -- you were born again spirituallyby the water and the word in your "Womblike" heart of faith. "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation..."
2) Continuation: You carry on the blood line and name of your parents -- in the rebirth, you carry on the blood line and name of Jesus. Isa 53:10 "...he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."
3) Character is produced: You were born with your parents traits including sin nature -- in the rebirth, you are born again with the divine nature. 2Pet 1:3 "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:"
Our character traits are:
a) Love of God's Son, 1John 2:23
b) Desire for holiness, 1John 3:9
c) The witness of the Spirit in us, Rom 8:16
d) A "procreation-like desire to share Christ with others, 1John 2:20
4) Completion: You are born into your family once and forever -- in the rebirth, your relationship with the Father is fixed for all time, John 1:11-12
5) Commencement: When you are born physically, there are no yesterdays - only TOMMORROWS -- in the new birth, you have no past and only growth in spiritual matrutiy in your future. You've "graduated" from the test of the world and are in training to judge with world, 1Cor 6:2-3 and to rule, Rom 5:10.
6) Certainty: In physical birth, the question never comes up "Were you born?" or whether your mother had any children. Same in the rebirth! Proof of birth is not a birth certificate but your existence and in the rebirth, you don't have to say, "Gee, I hope I am born again."
skypair
Brother Bob
New Member
Good response Skypair; thank you,
Is that rebirth by an incorrupitle seed?
Is that rebirth by an incorrupitle seed?
Brother Bob
New Member
Thanks, I needed that bad.
psalms109:31
Active Member
18 inches
Sometimes we miss this rebirth by about 18 inches.
Where satan can steal the seed or we can let trials and tribulations choke it out
Sometimes we miss this rebirth by about 18 inches.
Where satan can steal the seed or we can let trials and tribulations choke it out
Brother Bob
New Member
Yes, it surely happens and the false teachers are helping that process right along and getting people to settle down on something short of Salvation.
What exactly is that supposed to mean? Well, aside from being a cute sounding ditty, although a completely baseless and non-Biblical phrase, that is?psalms109:31 said:
Agreed, here! Matt. 13, Mk. 4, and Lk. 8 all have this parable with the accompanying explanation that :
The intention is/was that of salvation, in the parable's explanation.
But here, however, I disagree with what you have implied. The implication is that these were not saved. The explanation of the parable simply does not say this. In fact, the word did its job. The seed did, in fact, germinate. But what then happened? The lead words "But" and "Now" shows a contrast with the first, and a similarity with the second, by the third category of the soils, that among the thorns. And the question about that "among the thorns" is about being "unfruitful". The question is not whether or not the Word actually did its job, again. This parable covers both salvation and discipleship, which are not one and the same. The faithful disciple (good ground) is again contrasted to those who were not good disciples, with that word "But", again. The 'shallow rooted ' ones (stony ground) were "offended" (KJV) or "stumbles" (NKJV)
"20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles." (Mt. 13: 20-21)
"13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." (Lk. 8:13)
And those among the thorns?
"22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful." (Matt. 13:22)
"14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity." (LK. 8:14)
But although these were, I believes, saved individuals, they were not mature disciples, for Jesus went on to say that:
" 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”" (Matt. 13:23)
This is the ideal, without question. But it the reverse is not stated, that if one does not hit this 'ideal', then one was never "really and truly saved", a phrase that I hate with a passion, and a phrase that is never found in the written Word of God. Scripture only knows saved or not saved- no additional baggage!
God never said it; why do so many Christians????
The confusion between the absolutely free gift of salvation and the discipleship that can and may cost one everything, has done about as much as anything I can think of, to rob believers of the joy of their salvation, IMO. Rather than make disciples, it is so much easier to seek to judge and decry, and shake one's head sadly and say, "Too bad he or she never was really saved in the first place."
Said who?? It certainly wasn't God!!
The theological terminology for this is "Lordship salvation", BTW, and as far as I'm concerned and as I understand Scripture, it is another gospel.
Ed
P.S. All the Scripture quotes are taken from the NKJV, my emphases added.
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Hey Ed,
I agree with your analysis of the last 3 seeds. The "germinate" and so represent saved individuals who merely run into difficulty in their walks 1) on account of lack of dicipleship and study and 2) on account of circumstances. These just don't grow to produce fruit, right?
You know why I think he does this? Because under true Calvinism, works are the only proof of salvation both to the professer and to the church. But as we know, the Pharisees had many works but were not saved.
Thanks for jumping in here.
skypair
I agree with your analysis of the last 3 seeds. The "germinate" and so represent saved individuals who merely run into difficulty in their walks 1) on account of lack of dicipleship and study and 2) on account of circumstances. These just don't grow to produce fruit, right?
Yes. John Mac had "come around" on choosing salvation but has not given up his view that if we don't live like believers, then we are lost. This goes right along with his interpretation of Mt 13. He would say that 3/4's of the seed was lost on account of no fruit.
You know why I think he does this? Because under true Calvinism, works are the only proof of salvation both to the professer and to the church. But as we know, the Pharisees had many works but were not saved.
Thanks for jumping in here.
skypair
psalms109:31
Active Member
toss the seed
The problem is not with the bad soil, the problem was with the sower.
I always wonder what would happen if the sower didn't just cast the seed down, but prepared the ground first.
He would of had a greater harvast. That is the problem to day, the sower just cast the seed down first, before preparing the ground.
They went out from us, but they didn't belong to us. They going proves they were never of us.
We want to just cast the seed down and let God do all the work, we He sent us out to do it, and think we will have a good harvast at the end.
The problem is not with the bad soil, the problem was with the sower.
I always wonder what would happen if the sower didn't just cast the seed down, but prepared the ground first.
He would of had a greater harvast. That is the problem to day, the sower just cast the seed down first, before preparing the ground.
They went out from us, but they didn't belong to us. They going proves they were never of us.
We want to just cast the seed down and let God do all the work, we He sent us out to do it, and think we will have a good harvast at the end.
Brother Bob
New Member
I think his point is well taken as the King said to Paul, you have almost persuaded me to be a Christian.
I see no reason to bash him at all.
I see no reason to bash him at all.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Scripture teaches
The scripture teaches us we are called to be sower and some waterers.
The problem we are having is the sower always prepares the ground first. Gets rid of the bad things in the soil, because they can be removed.
The scripture teaches us we are called to be sower and some waterers.
The problem we are having is the sower always prepares the ground first. Gets rid of the bad things in the soil, because they can be removed.
Some of this may well be true. (I know Paul said he was a 'planter', and Apollos was a 'waterer'.) However in the parables under consideration, the only identified sower is the Lord Jesus Christ. The "we/us" would be "the servants of the owner", at least as I read Scripture. (Matt. 13: 27,28) Of the six times the word sower is ever found in the NT, five of them are in these parables. The two OT references and the only other NT reference are/is not identified, specifically.psalms109:31 said:
The Lord is the one who made the identification, not me. I'se just a-repeatin' what He said.
Ed
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psalms109:31
Active Member
Son of man
Jesus is both Son of God and Son of man.
We are son and daughters of man.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, we are adopted son's through Jesus.
Jesus is both Son of God and Son of man.
We are son and daughters of man.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, we are adopted son's through Jesus.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Son of man
Ezekiel 11:15
"Son of man, your brothers—your brothers who are your blood relatives and the whole house of Israel—are those of whom the people of Jerusalem have said, 'They are far away from the LORD; this land was given to us as our possession.'
Ezekiel 11:15
"Son of man, your brothers—your brothers who are your blood relatives and the whole house of Israel—are those of whom the people of Jerusalem have said, 'They are far away from the LORD; this land was given to us as our possession.'
Hi Bob;
Without a doubt, being born again is becoming a new creature in Christ. Some complain about emotional fuzzies and claim they have nothing to do with Salvation. They are right they don't but, I sure felt those wonderful warm fuzzies when I confessed Christ as my Savior. It was an emotional thing for me to realize that my confession meant that I would be with Him someday for always. In that moment I have never ever felt so wonderfully at peace with God. Even though I didn't deserve it. We are on the same side as well.
MB
Without a doubt, being born again is becoming a new creature in Christ. Some complain about emotional fuzzies and claim they have nothing to do with Salvation. They are right they don't but, I sure felt those wonderful warm fuzzies when I confessed Christ as my Savior. It was an emotional thing for me to realize that my confession meant that I would be with Him someday for always. In that moment I have never ever felt so wonderfully at peace with God. Even though I didn't deserve it. We are on the same side as well.
MB
Brother Bob
New Member
Thank you MB;
I don't guess we will ever feel that good again this side of the resurrection but it still a great feeling, especially when lifted up while walking on Holy Ground in the Pulpit.
I don't guess we will ever feel that good again this side of the resurrection but it still a great feeling, especially when lifted up while walking on Holy Ground in the Pulpit.
MB said:
As I like to say, at the point of salvation, you should feel "warm fuzzies." That's the "filling" of the Holy Spirit in your mind, EMOTIONS, and will. Don't forget that. You will be filled again and I'm sure will have emotions similar to those "warm fuzzies" again.
skypair