What is Biblical Inerrancy?

[Thinkingstuff]

Now that we have introduced the notion that there might be a True Church, is it not reasonable to suppose there might also be a False Church--a synogogue of Satan? Do we turn to the Word of God, the traditions of men, or a combination thereof for a standard faith and practice? Maybe Grandma Moses?

Jesus told us He would build His Church and He gave Her His authority, His Word, and the Holy Spirit to keep Her on the straight and narrow. He said He would be with Her forever. Most of the past two millenia have shown a church never on the straight and narrow even through today. Are we saying that Jesus cannot keep His Bride from being defiled?

He has kept Her, just like He said He would. She has survived the onslaught of the hordes of Hades. You will not find Her listed in Who is Who in Religion. You will find Her waiting and watching for the Bridegroom to return.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Selah,

Bro. James

P.S. To "Thinkingstuff": how long have you studied this group called Primitive Baptists?

To be honest. 24 hours ago. Since, I saw a profile that said they were primitive baptist (nudge nudge). I reviewed several websites. Elder Meeting minutes, different churches web pages, wikipedia, A Pastors own web page that tries to explain it. But from the different sites I visited they all see that they're primarily the same. Included with that I bring my own knowledge Christian History. However, it seems to be consistant with what I read hear and their statements. I think one had a FAQs page which was very informative.

 

[Dale-c]

The issue here is that you are trying to disprove the inspiration of the KJB but God promised to preserve His Word.

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh in you that believe." (1 Thess. 2:13)

The issue here is that you are trying to disprove the inspiration of the NASB but God promised to preserve His Word.

"For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe."(1 Thess. 2:13, NASB)
See? I can use that both ways.
And you still have not answered my questions.
You must be able to answer these questions or you have no argument.
I am not trying to disprove that the KJV is God's word. Rather I am opposed to the idea of special revelation to the KJV translators above and beyond other sinful men who have translated the perfect Word of God into their own languages.

You are actually the one opposed to preservation here.
It is you that wishes all translation to stop with a 17th century version.
It is me whop favors that God providentially continues to preserve His word.

I will post my questions one more time:

1. If you insist on a 100% perfect and literal translation, which edition of the KJV contains 100% word for word THE Word of God?
There have been many revisions of the KJV and I highly doubt you use the 1611.

2. By what authority is the KJV "The Bible" and other translations are not, such as the Geneva Bible, the ASV, the NKJV and the NASB et al?

3.3. What was THE Bible in the years prior to 1611 in England and at what exact time did the KJV become "The Bible"

 

[Amy.G]

Dale, the problem here is that you just make too much sense! There is no way to argue it. :thumbs:

 

[Dale-c]

Amy, thanks for the kind words.
The way KJVo people act they have a slam dunk case but can't even answer basic questions about their position, like what makes the KJV so special and where is its authority derived from?

I say the KJV is special because it is a translation of the inspirerd Word of God.
but then so is the NASB and others.

 

[PK]

The issue here is that you are trying to disprove the inspiration of the NASB but God promised to preserve His Word.

"For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe."(1 Thess. 2:13, NASB)
See? I can use that both ways.
And you still have not answered my questions.
You must be able to answer these questions or you have no argument.
I am not trying to disprove that the KJV is God's word. Rather I am opposed to the idea of special revelation to the KJV translators above and beyond other sinful men who have translated the perfect Word of God into their own languages.

You are actually the one opposed to preservation here.
It is you that wishes all translation to stop with a 17th century version.
It is me whop favors that God providentially continues to preserve His word.

I will post my questions one more time:

1. If you insist on a 100% perfect and literal translation, which edition of the KJV contains 100% word for word THE Word of God?
There have been many revisions of the KJV and I highly doubt you use the 1611.

2. By what authority is the KJV "The Bible" and other translations are not, such as the Geneva Bible, the ASV, the NKJV and the NASB et al?

3.3. What was THE Bible in the years prior to 1611 in England and at what exact time did the KJV become "The Bible"

1) Are you talking about the 1629, 1638, 1762, and the 1769 Editions? These were not translations.
Let’s start with the 1629 Edition. This was simply an effort to correct some printing errors in which two of the original translators assisted in this effort.
Then there was the 1638 Edition. This edition also dealt with some printing errors having to do specifically with words and clauses.
Then we have the 1762 and the 1769 edition in which both of these had to do with spelling changes. The English language prior to this had very few spelling rules so once these rules were established some changes were needed.
As you can see there were no new translation or revisions published in the 1629, 1638, 1762, or the 1769. They were simply editions to the 1611 and only had to do with spelling and printing errors.
So, I suppose you want to know which King James Bible do I have? Is it the 1611, the 1629, the 1638, the 1762, or the 1769? I have the 1769 edition of the King James 1611 Authorized Version.

2) Because of the following: (This is not all!! There are plenty more examples)
NIV = New International Version
NASB = New American Standard Bible
NRSV = New Revised Standard Version
REB = Revised English Bible
LB = Living Bible
NWT = New World Translation
NAB = New American Bible
NKJV = New King James Version 


Psalm 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The above promise says that God intends to preserve His WORDS forever. Lets see what the others say…

NIV....... you will keep us safe
NASB... Thou wilt preserve him
NRSV... You, O Lord, will protect us
REB...... you are our protector
LB......... you will forever preserve your own
NAB...... You, O Lord, will keep us

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Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Attack the Virgin Birth of Christ? (Hint: a young woman or a maiden is NOT always a virgin)
NRSV... young woman
REB...... young woman
NWT..... maiden

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Luke 2:33
And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
Was Joseph Christ's father?
NIV....... The child's father
NASB... His father
NRSV... the child's father
REB...... The child's father
NWT..... its father
NAB...... the child's father

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I Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
WHO was manifest in the flesh? GOD was manifest in the flesh. Cant be sure with these others:
NIV....... He appeared in a body
NASB... He who was revealed in the flesh
NRSV... He was revealed in flesh
REB...... He was manifested in the flesh
LB......... who came to earth as a man
NWT..... He was made manifest in the flesh
NAB...... He was manifested in the flesh

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Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Is the Lord Jesus everlasting? Not according to these:
NIV....... from ancient times
NRSV... from ancient days
REB..... in ancient times
NWT.... from the days of time indefinite
NAB..... from ancient times (vs. 1)

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Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Revelation 22:16 tells us that Jesus Christ is the "Morning Star". Why do these others say that Lucifer is?
NIV....... morning star
NASB... star of the morning
NRSV... Day Star
REB...... Bright morning star
NWT..... you shining one
NAB...... morning star

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Daniel 3:25
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
This is an excellent Old Testament verse, which shows that Jesus Christ existed long before He was born in Bethlehem.
But lets see what other Bibles think of Jesus Christ and who He is:
NIV....... a son of the gods
NASB... a son of the gods
NRSV... a god
REB..... a god
LB........ a god
NWT.... a son of the gods
NAB..... a son of God (vs. 92)

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Colossians 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Where is the Atoning blood in your Bible?
NIV....... redemption, the forgiveness of sins
NASB... redemption, the forgiveness of sins
NRSV... redemption, the forgiveness of sins
REB..... our release is secured and our sins are forgiven
NWT.... we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of sins
NAB...... redemption, the forgiveness of our sins
Acts 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
The Church of Christ loves the following Bibles:
NIV....... entire verse missing
NRSV... entire verse missing
REB...... entire verse missing
NWT..... entire verse missing
NAB...... omits entire verse, but re-numbers the verses so you won't miss it
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3)In the available Antiochian manuscripts.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Point of order:

James L. Melton at

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/fight.html

Wrote much of the last post

1. Members have agreed with this statement:
[SIZE=-1] You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by BaptistBoard.com. We will delete posts that contain copyrighted material not owned by you unless you have permission to post them there.
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Unless PK is James L. Melton or own AV1611.com then Posting Ethics have been Violated, PK's Membership agreement has been violated, d PK's membership might be revoked, and laws have been broken for which the owners of BB (whom I happen to like) or PK might be liable before the law.

This is NOT a minor matter.

2. Here is a minor matter:

It is an unwritten rule of the BB (Baptist Board), implied standard of bbs (Bulletin Boards), and mildly rude to quote Bibles you don't look into. I know Dale-C writes his own questions.

I'm sorry, but Dale-C, myself, and others have continually shown the wrongness of these repeated errors. The Titanic was built by professionals; the Ark of Noah by amatures -- these lists of so called 'Bible readings' were made by professionals -- Dale-C, myself, and others on BB are amatures


This item was edited late so I would not have to quote all the previous post, most of which shouldn't have been there

[/SIZE]

 

[Dale-c]

PK, I know how to copy and paste as well.
But I am still awaiting YOUR answers.


1. you sort of replied but not really. You say you use the 1769 (I knew that already BTW) but does that mean only the 1689 is error free?
And if the others had printing errors were they then not the perfect Word of God?
Was the Word perfected in the 1769 version?


2. So you cite many textual differences. This in no way proves anything.
And so there are SOME versions that have inferior readings at places such as the RSV when it uses "Young Woman" rather than virgin. I agree, that is not a good translation.
but Most modern versions do not read it that way, certainly none that I use on a regular basis.

You have failed to show the authority!
Let me show you: If I say something it is not authoritative. If the Apostle Paul said something as an apostle it was inspired and authoritative.
You are saying that the KJV translators have authority that other apparently do not. Why is that?

3)In the available Antiochian manuscripts.

And Why?
Also why is the NKJV not the Bible if it has the same textual basis for the KJV?

I will ask one more question that is likely to go ignored:
What would it take to make a proper modern translation?

 

[Amy.G]

If a preacher in his sermon, quotes a passage from the KJV, but paraphrases it, is it still God's word?

If I paraphrase a passage when witnessing to someone because I don't have my bible with me, have I told them God's words? Is what I say ineffective because I didn't quote from the KJV verbatim?

 

[PK]

Point of order:

James L. Melton at

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/fight.html

Wrote much of the last post

1. Members have agreed with this statement:
[SIZE=-1] You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by BaptistBoard.com. We will delete posts that contain copyrighted material not owned by you unless you have permission to post them there.
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Unless PK is James L. Melton or own AV1611.com then Posting Ethics have been Violated, PK's Membership agreement has been violated, d PK's membership might be revoked, and laws have been broken for which the owners of BB (whom I happen to like) or PK might be liable before the law.

This is NOT a minor matter.

2. Here is a minor matter:

It is an unwritten rule of the BB (Baptist Board), implied standard of bbs (Bulletin Boards), and mildly rude to quote Bibles you don't look into. I know Dale-C writes his own questions.

I'm sorry, but Dale-C, myself, and others have continually shown the wrongness of these repeated errors. The Titanic was built by professionals; the Ark of Noah by amatures -- these lists of so called 'Bible readings' were made by professionals -- Dale-C, myself, and others on BB are amatures


This item was edited late so I would not have to quote all the previous post, most of which shouldn't have been there

[/SIZE]

Bro. Ed and my friends of the BB,

Please accept my apologies. I did not break these rules on purpose but it appears that I have however broken them. I failed to see the COPYRIGHT in bold print on the front page and took the opening statement as a my reason for using the material. And I quote, "I urge you to become familiar with this little booklet. Mark or highlight the special places that will be most useful to you. Keep a copy close by and when the moment is right, USE IT!", end quote.
For this reason I will accept the punishment for my actions and I will revoke my own membership to the BB. It has been fun and I have learned a lot from my friends here. I do have one question as I leave, does this BB rule apply to copyrighted Bibles?
I will also contact Bro. Melton to make sure that I have not violated his copyright in anyway. I did not just simply "cut and past" but I did use some of his material under what I thought to be his permission in the statement above.

See you in heaven!
PK :wavey:

 

[Dale-c]

I don't think you need to leave PK.
It is fine to link to copyrighted material as long as you cite the sources etc.

As far as copyrighted bibles, they all have a policy that allows for such things as quoting like this.
The copyright is really only so you or I don't go printing and selling NIV bibles, just as only Cambridge and Oxford were given the privilege to print the KJV bibles England.