It is the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is "What did Jesus mean by repentance?"
Just because Jesus never said "Repentance is............." does not mean that is not what he communicated or understood.
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What is Biblical repentence?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
It is the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is "What did Jesus mean by repentance?"
Just because Jesus never said "Repentance is............." does not mean that is not what he communicated or understood.
True, true, but here is statement by Evan6589 that led to my question:
One must turn from their sin to be saved. Read what Jesus said.
True, true, but that is not what was asserted, now was it?
Irrelevant question. No one has asserted that.
Another strawman question. No one has asserted such.
I am neither.
I do not know any of them and that includes Dr. Mac
Revmitchell
Hello RM,
I appreciate what you are saying to me, and the manner in which you offer it:wavey:
I am aware that some have different ideas of Election.....but I think a straight forward reading of this text does not allow for any elaborate or fancy ideas...here is why-
It is the church of the Thessalonians....formerly idol worshippers....but now regenerated by God are
I understand this to be speaking of the Covenant of Redemption and Grace.
Verse 4 speaks of God's electing love for these sheep...I have no idea why anyone would even begin to think of anything less.
Hello RM,
I appreciate what you are saying to me, and the manner in which you offer it:wavey:
I am aware that some have different ideas of Election.....but I think a straight forward reading of this text does not allow for any elaborate or fancy ideas...here is why-
It is the church of the Thessalonians....formerly idol worshippers....but now regenerated by God are
I understand this to be speaking of the Covenant of Redemption and Grace.
Verse 4 speaks of God's electing love for these sheep...I have no idea why anyone would even begin to think of anything less.
He is addressing the church..He speaks of their election...so yes it was saved persons.
If you are suggesting that they were saved for twenty years.....got everything straightened out....no I think that is not in view.
People got saved and transformed in short order.
Look how he describes them-
7 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:
8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.
9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:
11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,
12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
holiness of life was made a reality in the lives of these effectually called brothers...
look here again.....
8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
9 For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;
10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
no optional holiness here....but law keeping brothers as love is the fulfilling of the law.
in,
Agreed, but that obeying the Lord jesus comes by walking and abiding in the Holy Spirit, the infilling Presense of Him now in us, and not by keeping the law in the sense of that makes /keeps us still right with God!
Some in the LDS movement seemed to have taken the position that even being willing to walk right with God not enough, MUST always also have obedience 24/7, or else did not have real salvation!
Well you need to read into what he said unfortunately. His response was sophomoric but not entirely incorrect. When people say turn from their sin it does not mean to be perfect or to not struggle with some old sins.
It does mean the one recognizes that their sin put Christ on the cross and now rather than live their lives their way feeling free to do what ever they want contrary to scripture and God they recognize they must now strive to live their lives according to scripture and God's will. Understanding that does not negate the fact that they struggle with sin or that it takes a life time to grow. What it does do is makes a commitment that is the goal from now on.
Does one holding to a LDS viewpoint bring them assurance of their salvation?
Yeshua1
Can you show where anyone suggests sinless perfection?
Can you show where any of these teachers say we keep the law in order to be saved?
I think you mean lordship....LDS means latter day saints[Mormons]
Can you tell me when it is okay to not obey God or his word as you say that to obey 24/ 7 is not what we are to do......which sin, or sins does God just overlook?
Offer scripture to show this:thumbs:
obeying= law keeping....The Holy Spirit indwells Christians...we do not abide in Him....he indwells us. The Holy Spirit enables us to obey God's law /word.
Can you show where anyone suggests sinless perfection?
Can you show where any of these teachers say we keep the law in order to be saved?
I think you mean lordship....LDS means latter day saints[Mormons]
Can you tell me when it is okay to not obey God or his word as you say that to obey 24/ 7 is not what we are to do......which sin, or sins does God just overlook?
Offer scripture to show this:thumbs:
OK but election is not defined here so my point still stands.
You know that is NOT what I am saying here my brother!
Agree with you that we need to always obey the Lord, to agree with what he has said in the bible is right to do, iys just that while in this flesh, we will nEVER get to the place where we do obey Him 24/7!
And the grace of God provides us coverage for that, and the Holy Spirit is THE ONLY means by which even the saved will be able to live for Him in a right fashion!
Many of us who have been saved still , at times, have chosn to quench/grieve the Spirit, and at those times, have sinned due to us submitting and yielding to the flesh, not submitting to the Spirit!
Which does nothing to speak to LS. If you think it does then you do not understand it.
the Bibler states to us that the Gospel message is that Jesus was born/died/raised up for the justification of sinners, and those who receive that truth thry faith get saved...
Where does it state that you must forsake all sinning in order to get saved, or kept saved?
have the desire to do that yes, but actually have jesus as the Lord 24/7 over all areas of our lives? that real salvations means that he is either "always lord over all, or he is lord over none?"
Again you show you do not understand the LS position. I suggest you take a look at it without your presuppositions. you have it all wrong.
Jesus is either the Lord over all of me, or else he is the Lord over none of me, correct?
Dr Mac own words here!
And apparently that does not mean what you want it too.
Yeshua1
OK just checking
:thumbs:
The Holy Spirit is given to allow us access to the word of God/law of God.....with a view to obey it. The law/word of God provides the "tracks" and the Spirit of God enables our obedience.....yet we are responsible to use the means provided in the word...to mortify sin.....
It is not mystical but rather intensely practical...
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
OK just checking
:thumbs:
The Holy Spirit is given to allow us access to the word of God/law of God.....with a view to obey it. The law/word of God provides the "tracks" and the Spirit of God enables our obedience.....yet we are responsible to use the means provided in the word...to mortify sin.....
It is not mystical but rather intensely practical...
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.