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What is FAITH?
- Thread starter atpollard
- Start date
37818
Well-Known Member
The Aoostle Paul wrote, ". . . faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ." -- Romans 10:17-18. Citing the Psalms 19:4 , ". . . Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. . . ." And understanding "world" here to refer to the inhabited earth. And the message in that Psalm to speak of God's natural revelation.
The hearing of truth is the basis of faith.
The hearing of truth is the basis of faith.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Information is not knowledge unless it is believed. One cannot know anything without faith in that information.
We have faith in our own experience.
We have faith in our own thinking.
We have faith in the witness of others. (Which is our primary source for what we choose to believe.)
We have faith in our own experience.
We have faith in our own thinking.
We have faith in the witness of others. (Which is our primary source for what we choose to believe.)
According to Thayer's it is just a little more. It's a "conviction of the truth; belief".
A conviction is more than a simple "I believe that". Now this is just my opinion, but a convicting belief is one that does not sway and is deeply rooted.
37818
Well-Known Member
Reference?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Any biblical greek dictionary would identify "pistos" as a verb, I suppose. There are several here that are well educated in biblical Greek.
English has no verb that exactly reflects "faith", which generally referred to following specific teachings, so it was translated as "belief". Belief suggests internal mental assent instead of outward action that reflected following specific teachings.
Jesus often used language that demanded those who claimed to trust His teachings to "follow" Him. He said, "take up your cross", "let the dead bury the dead", "your righteousness must exceed that of the pharisees" and many other words that demonstrated that "faith" was far more than internal mental assent.
Those who did not commit to the very stringent conditions Jesus laid out for His disciples, they were said to be unworthy of Him.
For someone to have "faith" meant their lives were transformed by the teachings and they walked according to those teachings.
Peace to you.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Strong G4102: πίστις pístis, pis'-tis; feminine noun; from G3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:—assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
Found in ...
[Just FYI]
Found in ...
- [Mat 8:10 NASB] 10 Now when Jesus heard [this,] He marveled and said to those who were following, "Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.
- [Mat 9:2, 22, 29 NASB] 2 And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven." ... 22 But Jesus turning and seeing her said, "Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well." At once the woman was made well. ... 29 Then He touched their eyes, saying, "It shall be done to you according to your faith."
- [Mat 15:28 NASB] 28 Then Jesus said to her, "O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed at once.
- [Mat 17:20 NASB] 20 And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
- [Mat 21:21 NASB] 21 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.
- [Mat 23:23 NASB] 23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.
- [Mar 2:5 NASB] 5 And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
- [Mar 4:40 NASB] 40 And He said to them, "Why are you afraid? Do you still have no faith?"
- [Mar 5:34 NASB] 34 And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace and be healed of your affliction."
- [Mar 10:52 NASB] 52 And Jesus said to him, "Go; your faith has made you well." Immediately he regained his sight and [began] following Him on the road.
- [Mar 11:22 NASB] 22 And Jesus answered saying to them, "Have faith in God.
- [Luk 5:20 NASB] 20 Seeing their faith, He said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven you."
- [Luk 7:9, 50 NASB] 9 Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled at him, and turned and said to the crowd that was following Him, "I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such great faith." ... 50 And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
- [Luk 8:25, 48 NASB] 25 And He said to them, "Where is your faith?" They were fearful and amazed, saying to one another, "Who then is this, that He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey Him?" ... 48 And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace."
- [Luk 17:5-6, 19 NASB] 5 The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!" 6 And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a mustard seed, you would say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you. ... 19 And He said to him, "Stand up and go; your faith has made you well."
- [Luk 18:8, 42 NASB] 8 "I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" ... 42 And Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has made you well."
- [Luk 22:32 NASB] 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."
[Just FYI]
37818
Well-Known Member
πιστος as an Adjective.
The English usage faith as verb is now archaic, faith used as a transitive verb, meaning believe, trust.
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected. Pistis is a noun from the verb Pietho.
Perhaps you could explain what a "transitive verb" is? Why is the noun pistis (faith) used as a transitive verb (believe?), or maybe you are saying it shouldn't be.
Gup20
Active Member
The word faith is often used interchangeably with believed or trusted in scripture.
Genesis 15:5-6 (NASB) 5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.
Romans 4:3-4 (NASB) 3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
Romans 4:9 (NASB) Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Galatians 3:5-9 (NASB) 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
So we see the foundational model - the patriarch of faith in the gospel - Abraham - Was counted righteous for his mere belief when God said the gospel to him.
Romans 4:11-13 (NASB) 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Romans 4:16 (NASB) For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
So for this reason Abraham is the primary model of faith in the gospel. His example of faith is the scripture’s definitive answer to what is faith. All who are of saving faith (the faith which leads to righteousness) are derivative of the same faith as Abraham.
Genesis 15:5-6 (NASB) 5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.
Romans 4:3-4 (NASB) 3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
Romans 4:9 (NASB) Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Galatians 3:5-9 (NASB) 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
So we see the foundational model - the patriarch of faith in the gospel - Abraham - Was counted righteous for his mere belief when God said the gospel to him.
Romans 4:11-13 (NASB) 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Romans 4:16 (NASB) For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
So for this reason Abraham is the primary model of faith in the gospel. His example of faith is the scripture’s definitive answer to what is faith. All who are of saving faith (the faith which leads to righteousness) are derivative of the same faith as Abraham.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
The only part that I disagree with is the word “mere” before belief.
Demons have a “mere” belief (intellectual awareness of the truth) of the gospel (good news).
Abraham and the Saints have a belief that motivates them to take action based on that belief ... Abraham left his old homeland. Abraham believed that God WOULD give him many heirs through Isaac. Abraham was willing to kill Isaac because he trusted God to keep His promise.
Judas believed that Jesus was the Messiah and charged 30 pieces of silver for that information.
Gup20
Active Member
The scripture says demons believe God exists, but it says they deny the gospel (that Christ came in the flesh).
The case of Judas is interesting because his actions demonstrated he didn’t actually believe. Jesus confirmed that:
John6
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
Scripture clearly indicates Abraham was made righteous prior to circumcision, which was prior to offering Isaac, prior to leaving his homeland.
Romans 4:9-10 (NASB) 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;
Abraham was made righteous for his faith prior to being circumcised and more than a decade prior to offering Isaac.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
- [Matthew 8:28-34 NIV] 28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" 30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs." 32 He said to them, "Go!" So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.
I disagree.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
A quick chronology ...
- [Gen 12:1-4 NLT] 1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father's family, and go to the land that I will show you. 2 I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. 3 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you." 4 So Abram departed as the LORD had instructed, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he left Haran.
- [Gen 15:1-6 NLT] 1 Some time later, the LORD spoke to Abram in a vision and said to him, "Do not be afraid, Abram, for I will protect you, and your reward will be great." 2 But Abram replied, "O Sovereign LORD, what good are all your blessings when I don't even have a son? Since you've given me no children, Eliezer of Damascus, a servant in my household, will inherit all my wealth. 3 You have given me no descendants of my own, so one of my servants will be my heir." 4 Then the LORD said to him, "No, your servant will not be your heir, for you will have a son of your own who will be your heir." 5 Then the LORD took Abram outside and said to him, "Look up into the sky and count the stars if you can. That's how many descendants you will have!" 6 And Abram believed the LORD, and the LORD counted him as righteous because of his faith.
- [Gen 16:16 NLT] 16 Abram was eighty-six years old when Ishmael was born.
- [Gen 17:1, 9-11 NLT] 1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am El-Shaddai--'God Almighty.' Serve me faithfully and live a blameless life. ... 9 Then God said to Abraham, "Your responsibility is to obey the terms of the covenant. You and all your descendants have this continual responsibility. 10 This is the covenant that you and your descendants must keep: Each male among you must be circumcised. 11 You must cut off the flesh of your foreskin as a sign of the covenant between me and you.
- [Gen 17:17-21 NLT] 17 Then Abraham bowed down to the ground, but he laughed to himself in disbelief. "How could I become a father at the age of 100?" he thought. "And how can Sarah have a baby when she is ninety years old?" 18 So Abraham said to God, "May Ishmael live under your special blessing!" 19 But God replied, "No--Sarah, your wife, will give birth to a son for you. You will name him Isaac, and I will confirm my covenant with him and his descendants as an everlasting covenant. 20 As for Ishmael, I will bless him also, just as you have asked. I will make him extremely fruitful and multiply his descendants. He will become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will be confirmed with Isaac, who will be born to you and Sarah about this time next year."
- Abram leaves homeland in obedience at age 75.
- God counts Abram as righteous.
- Ishmael Born when Abram was 86.
- Abram age 99 when God renames Him Abraham, makes the formal Covenant and requires circumcision.
- Abraham age 100 when birth of Isaac predicted and Isaac announced as heir to Covenant.
“Faith alone saves, but faith that saves is never alone.”
Gup20
Active Member
While He was here, it was hard to deny. Now that he's not here, they refuse to acknowledge it.
This is where I get this notion:
[1Jo 4:2-3 NASB] 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the [spirit] of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
Bare in mind... I don't think that demons don't know about Jesus... I think they do know but will not confess it.
[Rom 10:8-11 NASB] 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
To this I would add Abraham was 101 when Isaac was born. Isaac was in his 30's (probably) when they went to Mariah to sacrifice Isaac.
I agree with you that genuine faith is always accompanied by corresponding action. However, keep in mind this covenant of faith with Abraham was ratified (or as you say, made formal) by God in Genesis 15... 430 years before the Law of Moses was given. So the covenant of faith is truly apart from The Law... as the law didn't exist when the covenant of faith was made with Abraham.
[Gal 3:15-17 NASB] 15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is [only] a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as [referring] to many, but [rather] to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
Once the covenant of faith was ratified by God, it can no longer have conditions added to it. When The Law of Moses came 430 years later, it didn't modify or add any conditions to the covenant of faith God had previously made with Abraham. Therefore, the covenant God made with Abraham stands firm as the golden standard to define the kind of faith required for righteousness by faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Therefore, we can see that faith is truly apart from the law (as the law wouldn't be given for 430 more years when faith was ratified). However, The Law has never been apart from the covenant of faith... as the covenant of faith had existed for 430 years prior to The Law of Moses.
[Rom 3:21-22 NASB] 21 But now apart from the Law [the] righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even [the] righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
So the righteousness that comes by faith in Jesus Christ was WITNESSED by The Law, but the covenant of faith is apart from The Law and The Law adds no conditions to the covenant of faith. The Law is the Torah, so we know that the covenant of righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe is shown in the Torah... and that's exactly what we see in Genesis 12-17.
Since the Holy Spirit had not yet come, we know the faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ Abraham had was mere belief and not some spiritual or mystical power. The power was in the preaching of the gospel... the SAYING of truth.
[Gal 3:8 NASB] 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."
[Rom 1:16 NASB] 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[Rom 10:13-18 NASB] 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" 16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" 17 So faith [comes] from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."
[Rom 1:16 NASB] 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[Rom 10:13-18 NASB] 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" 16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" 17 So faith [comes] from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."
It was God Himself who first preached the gospel of Jesus Christ to Abraham.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I agree with almost all of that (not worth picking the nits), but I still hate the phrase “mere belief” which sounds too much like intellectual accent with no action (which has never been more than lip service and a ‘dead faith’).