What Is First ?

[Brother Bob]

doulous;
I am 67 but am somewhat of a history buff on the Primitive and Old Regular Baptist. Besides that I still go to the church where the split took place.

 

[Hope of Glory]

2 Timothy 1:9: Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

“Before the world began.” Literally, “before times aionian”. The beginnings of our purpose in God is from before time was reckoned by ages or years or cycles of any sort. It’s from the time before the world existed as we know it. This idea goes along with the idea of Christ’s pre-existence. In that timeless present, grace was given to us in God’s decree, even though we did not yet exist! Before time, God had a purpose and a calling for us! Isn’t that exciting to think about?

But, we see in 2 Timothy 1:9 that Spiritual salvation comes before the calling. We are told in Matthew 22:14, “For many are called, but few are chosen.” Not all are called! The many in this verse are called not unto salvation, because the invitation to be saved is not limited to just many, but it’s to every person who comes into this world. The calling is a holy calling and it’s given after a person is saved. Out of the many that are called, a few are chosen or elect, or called-out.

 

[doulous]

Originally posted by Timtoolman:
It is much better, easier to follow a debate without all the pot shots. And even more than that it is very refreshing too.

Tim, you're right. The hard part is knowing when to temper our response when our theological or emotional switch is thrown. That is one of the reasons I am so fond of the creeds and confessions. These man gathered over years in order to study (the scriptures), discuss and debate teachings that were (and still are) central to Christian orthodoxy. They kept their responses centered on content and not on emotion. They were better men than I currently am.

 

[J.D.]

The split in 1887, if you're refering to the "Black Rock" address, was a split between missionary (Old Regular) vs non-missionary (though they deny that label)(Primitive) baptists, BOTH of which were full 5-point calvinists. The various splits and termoil between the calvinist (particular) and the arminian (general) baptists go back further than that. True?

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes, but I am talking about a particular split in 1883 between Mates Creek Association (Primitive Baptist) and The Old Regular Baptist and continued on to 1894 involving the New Salem Association of Old Regulars that once was The New Salem United Baptist that you can trace back to the Separate Baptist. Mates Creek left the Old Regular and went to the Primitive Baptist and are still there today.

 

[Brother Bob]

Taking a pot shot at a pot shot, pretty good.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
We are told in Matthew 22:14, “For many are called, but few are chosen.” Not all are called! The many in this verse are called not unto salvation, because the invitation to be saved is not limited to just many, but it’s to every person who comes into this world. The calling is a holy calling and it’s given after a person is saved. Out of the many that are called, a few are chosen or elect, or called-out.

Look at the context of the verse. The verse (For many are called but few are chosen) is the "punch line" of two parables meant to prepare the Jews for the shocking news that salvation was about to be extended to the Gentiles. The conclusion is that "Many are called" (salvation will go to many nations, not just the Jews) but "few are chosen" (the elect comprises only a portion of those people, not every single person).