What is Jesus teaching us here?

[Winman]

Same conclusion I've come to about the passage.

Again, our eyes, hands, and feet are very valuable to us, nobody would cut them off. Jesus is saying that no sin is worth our soul. Our soul is so important, that if your eye causes you to sin, or your hand, or your foot, as valuable as they are, you would be better to gouge them out or cut them off than go to hell. So, he is saying our soul is what truly matters and what is most important and should be our priority.

We should not put any sin, like being wealthy or powerful before trusting Christ and being saved.

 

[kyredneck]

.... He is saying to cut out the sinning.

And, given the sexual content of the passage....

42 And whosoever shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it were better for him if a great millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire. MK 9

Where exactly is the 'sexual content' of the passage?

This context is dealing with false teaching that would lead His little lambs astray. He's not saying to cut out the sinning, He's saying to remove the source of the problem. 'Put away the evil from the midst of you lest the many be defiled'. And if it is sexual as you say, cutting off the hand is not going to fix it. Origen and Augustine cut the right parts off to fix a 'sexual problem'.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

origen and augustine cut the right parts off to fix a 'sexual problem'.

what are you saying here?

 

[kyredneck]

...ok, I'll do it for you...:

origen and augustine castrated

 

[Greektim]

42 And whosoever shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it were better for him if a great millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire. MK 9

Where exactly is the 'sexual content' of the passage?

This context is dealing with false teaching that would lead His little lambs astray. He's not saying to cut out the sinning, He's saying to remove the source of the problem. 'Put away the evil from the midst of you lest the many be defiled'. And if it is sexual as you say, cutting off the hand is not going to fix it. Origen and Augustine cut the right parts off to fix a 'sexual problem'.

As I said in my last post, I was referring to Matthew's account from the Sermon on the Mount where sexual sin is the issue. Interesting how the evangelists used the Jesus tradition and apply it in different contexts to make different points. Ipsissima Vox!

 

[kyredneck]

As I said in my last post, I was referring to Matthew's account from the Sermon on the Mount where sexual sin is the issue. Interesting how the evangelists used the Jesus tradition an apply it in different contexts to make different points. Ipsissima Vox!

27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell. Mt 5

If you're going to interpret even the least of this passage 'figuratively', the woman being lusted after can just as well be a figure of 'turning back in their hearts' to that old whore that crucified their Lord.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As I said in my last post, I was referring to Matthew's account from the Sermon on the Mount where sexual sin is the issue. Interesting how the evangelists used the Jesus tradition an apply it in different contexts to make different points. Ipsissima Vox!

FOR THOSE WHO DONT SPEAK LATIN :laugh:
Ipsissima Vox is a Latin expression meaning "the very voice", and describes the view that the New Testament Gospel-accounts capture the concepts that Jesus expressed, but not exact words. Ipsissima Vox is contrasted with Ispissima Verba, meaning "the very words".

 

[Van]

One of the rules of interpreting scripture is that if the literal meaning makes sense, seek no other sense. Here we have a hand causing us to stumble. But if we cut it off, we would still have our other hand. Can we think of something where we need only one hand to stumble, but with one hand remaining we will not stumble?

How about one foot causing us to stumble. Would we stumble less if we were lame?

How about we look at something that makes us stumble. So we pluck out one eye. Why would we not stumble using our one good eye?

So the literal meaning makes little or no sense.

Winman mentioned priorities, how about if something we treasure, like using our hands to make model airplanes, or hiking, or star gazing causes us to neglect our ministry? This might have some application for those who have been born anew, but they have already escaped the lake of fire.

So the stumbling seems to refer to our path to Christ, not our missteps after being born anew.

Are we to cut off all conjecture, speculation, and man-made inventions that lead us or those we influence away from the throne of Christ?

 

[Greektim]

27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell. Mt 5

If you're going to interpret even the least of this passage 'figuratively', the woman being lusted after can just as well be a figure of 'turning back in their hearts' to that old whore that crucified their Lord.

What am I interpreting figuratively? I am simply saying that Matthew applies Jesus' words of a sinning right hand and eye in the context of sexual sin (both before and after; you leaving out the after part of the context).

 

[kyredneck]

What am I interpreting figuratively?

You mean Christ is instructing us to 'literally' self mutilate ourselves?

I am simply saying that Matthew applies Jesus' words of a sinning right hand and eye in the context of sexual sin...

Neither of those are sinning. They are the cause of stumbling.

(both before and after; you leaving out the after part of the context).

31 It was said also.....

Disagree. You should allow for a break between 30 and 31.

 

[Greektim]

You mean Christ is instructing us to 'literally' self mutilate ourselves?

Apparently you didn't read my very first post where I said it meant to stop sinning.

Neither of those are sinning. They are the cause of stumbling.

This is typically the response I hear. But I think the interpretation fits better to say that the eye & the hand is the thing doing the sinning. Therefore, removing the internet from your house b/c of porn problems is not what Jesus is saying. He is saying stop sinning. Stop watching porn altogether.

31 It was said also.....

Disagree. You should allow for a break between 30 and 31.

The break is not as apparent as you may think. Though they are separate sections, they are related thematically. And, one thing SotM scholars agree upon is that there is a lot of overlap, even structurally, within it. For example, one verse can end one section and begin another. This happens all throughout. So the "breaks" are not as hard and fast as you would like. Especially since vv. 31-32 are so short compared to the other 5 "you've heard it said... but I say..." paragraphs.

random smiley :1_grouphug:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

...ok, I'll do it for you...:

origen and augustine castrated

Auggie did NOT [edited]....he found the practice (if you could even use that expression) appalling!

 

[canadyjd]

Mark 9:43-48 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: ....... Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

What is Jesus saying here?

This passage of scripture recently changed my views on a particular subject. perhaps it will do the same for you.

I don't believe there is anything s*xual in the verse.

The context is persecution (...causes one of these little ones to stumble...). "Causing to stumble" means, imho, causing a professing Christian to deny Christ for fear of persecution.

So, Jesus is saying that if you are afraid you would deny Him if someone threatened to cut off your hand, foot, or poke out your eye,... then just go ahead and do it yourself so you won't deny Him during the persecution.

It is hyperbole, but it is also based on this truth.....better to go to heaven maimed than to be cast into hell whole.