What is Legalism?

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Tom Butler:
"The original legalists, of course were the Pharisees and Saducees. The measured your spirituality by how well you followed their rules. They criticized Jesus when he didn't ceremonially wash his hands before eating. They criticized him for healing on the Sabbath, because that was work.

The rulers of the Jews, the scribes, etc., were the ones who defined the law. Such has, it was okay to walk a mile on the Sabbath, but more than that was breaking the Sabbath. That was how your spirituality was measued."

GE:
The first legalist was the devil. You may take your statement here and just so apply it to the story of the fall; it will fit perfectly! The devil's first disciples were Adam and Eve. Legalism was the original sin; or rather, is, the original sin!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Tom Butler:
It's not pitting the law against Christ. It's man-made rules against Christ.

GE
The 'man-made rule' of: It's what I do against what I have received; which is of works, against which is of Grace.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The original legalists, of course were the Pharisees and Saducees. The measured your spirituality by how well you followed their rules. They criticized Jesus when he didn't ceremonially wash his hands before eating. They criticized him for healing on the Sabbath, because that was work.

The rulers of the Jews, the scribes, etc., were the ones who defined the law. Such has, it was okay to walk a mile on the Sabbath, but more than that was breaking the Sabbath. That was how your spirituality was measued.

Later, Paul and John wrote letters against the Juda-izers. Those who went beyone repentance and faith for salvation, and added keeping the Jewish law. Even after the Jerusalem conference settled the issue for Gentiles, the Judaizers kept infiltrating churches with that doctrine.

Modern legalism takes the form of measuring spirutality by the length of hair, shortness of skirts, going to the movies and playing some card games.

Or it may be measured by the version of the Bible you use.

It's not pitting the law against Christ. It's man-made rules against Christ.

GE

Take your post as a whole, and you have the best example possible of what legalism is; simply, calling the Law of God names, bringing it under suspicion, making it of no effect, in order to create space for your own conceptions of 'law'. What you have done here so well, was to pit God's own Law against Jesus Christ. One will have to go far to find a better representation of legalism.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

To me, legalism is man adding rules to God's Word and not realizing that they are not from God, but only his own preferences, and then trying to make everyone else live that way...

GE:

"Not realising"!! That's it! I listened to a sermon a while ago on the 'eight woe's', meant as a message against 'legalism' defined as 'man-made rules' (in replacement of the Ten Commandments - especially the Fourth of course). The poor preacher for no moment could see himself the legalist par excellence!

Man-made rules is not what makes one a lagalist! And yet it is; man-made rules is legalism outright where one's own 'obedience' is made substitute for Christ; where and when one's own goodness becomes the rule and not one's shortcoming / falling short.

 

[Joe]

Tom Butler:
"The original legalists, of course were the Pharisees and Saducees. The measured your spirituality by how well you followed their rules. They criticized Jesus when he didn't ceremonially wash his hands before eating. They criticized him for healing on the Sabbath, because that was work.

The rulers of the Jews, the scribes, etc., were the ones who defined the law. Such has, it was okay to walk a mile on the Sabbath, but more than that was breaking the Sabbath. That was how your spirituality was measued."

GE:
The first legalist was the devil. You may take your statement here and just so apply it to the story of the fall; it will fit perfectly! The devil's first disciples were Adam and Eve. Legalism was the original sin; or rather, is, the original sin!

The first legalist was God. :laugh: He told Adam & Eve not to eat the fruit of this particular tree or they would die

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The first legalist was God. :laugh: He told Adam & Eve not to eat the fruit of this particular tree or they would die

GE

No, the legalist is law-breaker; God is the only Law-Giver - Scriptures name Him thus. That's why one should have utmost respect for the Law : it's God commanding. God ultimately commands: In, and through, and with, Jesus Christ. That's why He is named: "The Word of God". Now my point at the beginning was just this: One may not - is forbidden to - have other god's in God's place, not even the Law! That was what the 'eight woe's'-preacher didn't realise!

 

[Joe]

I was teasing....

See my post #2.

Often when someone makes an attempt to actually follow God's commands, they are called a leglalist. People react as if they sat down and fabricated rules no one has ever heard of. Sometimes we are wrong and the commands ARE NOT to be followed because they were given to a certain peoples. In the end, it get's worked out.

Though sometimes it may be a valid adjective, imo, the term is too loosy thrown about.

Until I joined the BB, I had not heard of the term "legalist"

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Is it you standing with your bicycle? You sound young too!

Nice to be young! So strong and energetic; nothing seems too great a challenge. Ah, how soon youth is gone, and lethargy and apathy become one's greatest challenges ---much too soon!

I have resolved with God's help to be a leviathan for Him. The Afrikaans Bible in the last chapter of Job describes the whiteness of the leviathan's disturbance of the waters, as the 'grey hair' of a man. Old age should improve vitality; not reduce it. That's what I pray for now a days that age and exhaustion tend to draw me down and under. Let my going under be powerful by the strength of grace and faith! May it be Christ's glory seen through struggle and resistence of being Protestant for Christ!

 

[Joe]

Amen.
Sounds like you are aging gracefully.
If you are 66, you have some time before you kick the bucket.
You may live until 90!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

But Joe,

God has one Law for everyone of us, Jew or Gentile. Get it right, young man, and avoid being disallusioned later on. The 'letter'-Law is just as alive today as is the Living Law of God in the Person of Jesus Christ no less! That written Law by every letter and iota is for the transgressor and shall get him; unless that transgressor has taken refuge in the Law of Life, and his life is hid with Christ in God. Do not waste your time with all kinds of distinctions of the Law. They are distinctions God made between Law and Law. It detracts nothing of the holiness of any; it only increases it. The more distinct a Law, the 'holier' and the more exacting! Not the more temporary; not the less universal in its scope, demand and validity!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Amen.
Sounds like you are aging gracefully.
If you are 66, you have some time before you kick the bucket.
You may live until 90!

GE
Ja, by every 'normal' measure. Then sometimes God gives one an extraordinary 'sign' that one should live for much much longer, when, for example, five guns are held against your head and not a trigger is pulled!

 

[billwald]

I turn 68 this year and every morning's mystery is what part of my body will hurt this day? That's OK, nothing that can't be ignored.

But I never know what my guts will do when I eat away from home. Can I get to the next rest stop before I gots to go? I eat mostly at Subway when on the road. Good greasy Italian Salami seems to bind everything together.

 

[billwald]

How would one not "legally" ignore God's behavior code? Compare to the legality of the traffic code. How does one "spiritually" obey the speed limit without no legally obeying the speed limit?

When all lanes of the freeway are going over the speed limit do you also go over the speed limit or do you stay in the right curb lane (US rules) and obey the speed limit? If all Christians obeyed the traffic code would not the roads become safer?

What does "limit" mean? Is it not a mathematical term that has been applied to real life situations?

Your mother tells you to stay in your room. How does one obey spiritually without obeying physically? Say you used a stick to push a microphone to your sister's door while you are confined to your room. Are you obeying your mother?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ja, these things are all true. But when man gets 'religious', he turns into an intricate beast, and it's just then that he gets 'legalistic'. 'Legalism' is an abomination next to none; no wonder Jesus pronounced not less than eight woes - one more than seven - upon the legalists.

In my eyes for what they are able to see, is that a legalist makes of God and Mercy discardable amenities - once used, used up! and a nuisance to society.

 

[sonyaj68]

Legalism

According to dictionary.com -

a. the doctrine that salvation is gained through good works.
b. the judging of conduct in terms of adherence to precise laws.

During the time of my life when I was caught up in the doctrine of legalism, I was more involved in "b" than "a'. I had a set of strict guidelines - some Biblical, some self-imposed - and if others didn't follow those same guidelines, I assumed they were not a Christian or at least not as good of a Christian as me. It certainly made me feel good about myself (how pathetic, huh?) - a false sense of holiness.

In my personal experience, legalism leads to feeling better about oneself because of living by a set of laws or rules and being better than others instead of comparing ourselves to Christ, knowing we can never measure up to that standard, and understanding His grace.:godisgood:

 

[Revmitchell]

Opposition to personal pet sins.

 

[BobRyan]

Maybe Paul got it wrong in Scripture --

b]Rom 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

[/b]
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be [b]tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil[/b], of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

 

[billwald]

>b. the judging of conduct in terms of adherence to precise laws.

You would rather be judged by imprecise laws? This is my complaint against the teaching of the Heidelberg Catechism. It claims (paraphrase) that "good" Christians obey the 10 Commandments in gratitude to God, not because it is a requirement. I would rather defend myself against the specific charge of murder than against a general charge of ingratitude - if the punishments were similar.

 

[TCGreek]

Aren't we to keep the commands of God because we love Him? (John 14:15).

Someone will have to show me Scripture where gratitude is the impetus for keeping the commands of God.

 

[Darron Steele]

Romans 12:1-2 with “I beg you brothers, in view of God’s mercies, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your reasonable| worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind” (NBV|ESV).

When I first read this passage, I took it as urging us to serve the Lord out of gratitude. However, your passage was good; we should serve the Lord out of love as well. I do not see the two as mutually exclusive, and I predict you do not either.