What is love?

Bluefalcon · Apr 6, 2006

Originally posted by npetreley:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
It would certainly be better never to have been created than to have been created and not given the chance to be chosen. An eternity of damnation in hellfire is not as good as the absence of existence in the first place.

"A chance to be chosen"?

By the way, one problem with your reasoning is that it comes from the perspective of a saved person. [/QUOTE]Yes, a chance to be chosen. Sometimes things hard to understand need odd ways of thinking to understand them better. But as many as received him, to them he gave the power of sonship, and since God chose the elect before time began, he is obviously outside of time, and so a decision to receive him at any point in time is the same, to God, as before laying of the foundations of the earth. A chance to be chosen comes at that point in time when man accepts or rejects God's gift of grace, but, to God, of course, the time of man's decision has nothing to do with the time of his electing people, because God is outside and inside of time at the same time.

Dave · Apr 6, 2006

But He is using that language to communicate with us who are timebound. If someone who exists outside of time is communicating with people who He knows exist inside of time wouldn't He tailor the language to get the most accurate way of communicating to our limited understanding?

I know the bible is full of prophetic symbolism, but the passage in John 1 looks like pretty clear language to me.

Frenchy · Apr 6, 2006

Petrel and then I went on to explain the answer, which you must have NOT read, and which you cannot explain back to me. I can explain Gods love in human terms but not his UNCONDITIONAL love.

I wrote

Good question, I cannot explain God's love (his nature, his character) except that it is unconditional. it is not based on what we do or don't do, it just IS. the fact that God allows man to even exist is LOVE, for God to allow man to enjoy life is LOVE, for God to bestow gifts on the unjust is LOVE. who are we to question how his love should work?

God is also HOLY, RIGHTEOUS and JUST.
so in that sense should we not be thankful he even allows anyone to even go to HEAVEN in the first place? that is what you should be questioning, why he even allows sinful man to be saved?

Frenchy · Apr 6, 2006

Petrel, and then I went on to explain the answer, which you must NOT have read, and which you cannot explain back to me. I can explain what God's love is and isn't in human biblical terms. but not how he can be LOVE-AGAPE-UNCONDITIONAL.

I wrote
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good question, I cannot explain God's love (his nature, his character) except that it is unconditional. it is not based on what we do or don't do, it just IS. the fact that God allows man to even exist is LOVE, for God to allow man to enjoy life is LOVE, for God to bestow gifts on the unjust is LOVE. who are we to question how his love should work?

God is also HOLY, RIGHTEOUS and JUST.
so in that sense should we not be thankful he even allows anyone to even go to HEAVEN in the first place? that is what you should be questioning, why he even allows sinful man to be saved?

Another post i wrote

You would think that would make sense for your debate on free will. but you forget God's LOVE is greater than our love (he can't choose to love for he IS Love), and his WAYS are greater than our ways, and his THOUGHTS are greater than our thoughts.

He even loves the sinner Romans 5:8 "for while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" John 3:16 "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son" etc., he didn't choose to love the sinner he did so because it was his NATURE it is WHO he is.

And just because he chose some to be saved and others not to be, doesn't mean he doesn't love them any less or us any more. Just means he is God and can do what he wants, for his ways are not our ways and his thoughts not our thoughts.

If God chose us before the foundations of the world for his purpose and good pleasure and not others, does that mean God is no longer LOVE or that he didn't love those going to Hell, by no means! why can't you just accept that this is a paridox a mystery. just like you cannot explain the trinity neither will you be able to explain God choosing who he wants for all eternity.

Why do christians insist on bringing God down to their level of thinking and not just accept what his word has to say. is this not what the heathen does

Click to expand...

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Frenchy · Apr 6, 2006

Sorry meant to addres the above to DeeJay

DeeJay · Apr 6, 2006

Originally posted by Frenchy:
Petrel and then I went on to explain the answer, which you must have NOT read, and which you cannot explain back to me. I can explain Gods love in human terms but not his UNCONDITIONAL love.

I wrote <blockquote>quote:<hr />Good question, I cannot explain God's love (his nature, his character) except that it is unconditional. it is not based on what we do or don't do, it just IS. the fact that God allows man to even exist is LOVE, for God to allow man to enjoy life is LOVE, for God to bestow gifts on the unjust is LOVE. who are we to question how his love should work?

God is also HOLY, RIGHTEOUS and JUST.
so in that sense should we not be thankful he even allows anyone to even go to HEAVEN in the first place? that is what you should be questioning, why he even allows sinful man to be saved?

[/QUOTE]You answered a question, but not the one I asked. Your answer was in response to this post. I will bold the questions. Your answer does not in anyway answer them.

French

I believe the love is an action (doing something) not a fuzzy feeling. How did God love those he did not choose to be saved. What action did he do for them.

Or is love a fuzzy feeling? Are you saying God had "love feelings" for those he did not choose and therfore sent hell with out chance for redemption.

When God says love your neighbor, is it good enough to just have feelings for them while doing nothing?

DeeJay · Apr 6, 2006

Just to be clear.

Gods action of great love was sending His Son to die for us.

How does God love the un-chosen? (List an action please.)

If our neighbor is in need, can we love them with out taking an action? (this one is yes or no)

bapmom · Apr 7, 2006

Originally posted by DeeJay:

If our neighbor is in need, can we love them with out taking an action? (this one is yes or no)

I say no, we cannot.....

DeeJay · Apr 7, 2006

Originally posted by bapmom:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DeeJay:

If our neighbor is in need, can we love them with out taking an action? (this one is yes or no)

I say no, we cannot..... [/QUOTE]

I agree, because love is an action.

The follow up question would be:

If sinners are in need, can God love them with out taking action?

Frenchy · Apr 7, 2006

I answered you DeeJay you just will not accept my answer, because of "YOUR" definition of Love.
yes love is an action, it is a feeling, it is a commitment, it is unconditional.

According to you God is NO longer love because he didn't choose everyone to be saved only a few.

I can say the same thing to you and say well if God is really love then why did he ask man to make a choice to accept him why didn't he just allow everyone to go to Heaven? and if God is really love then why did he have his OWN son die on the cross. that isn't love now is it, DeeJay?

According to you God's LOVE is based on our actions. he only loves those who choose him right? i mean love all about ACTIONS isn't it?

Goes both ways your arguement

[ April 07, 2006, 02:12 AM: Message edited by: Frenchy ]

Frenchy · Apr 7, 2006

Highlighted are my answers

Good question, I cannot explain God's love (his nature, his character except that it is unconditional. it is not based on what we do or don't do, it just IS.

the fact that God allows man to even exist is LOVE, for God to allow man to enjoy life is LOVE, for God to bestow gifts on the unjust is LOVE. who are we to question how his love should work?

God is also HOLY, RIGHTEOUS and JUST.
so in that sense should we not be thankful he even allows anyone to even go to HEAVEN in the first place? that is what you should be questioning, why he even allows sinful man to be saved?

You would think that would make sense for your debate on free will. but you forget God's LOVE is greater than our love (he can't choose to love for he IS Love), and his WAYS are greater than our ways, and his THOUGHTS are greater than our thoughts.

He even loves the sinner Romans 5:8 "for while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" John 3:16 "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son" etc., he didn't choose to love the sinner he did so because it was his NATURE it is WHO he is.

And just because he chose some to be saved and others not to be, doesn't mean he doesn't love them any less or us any more. Just means he is God and can do what he wants, for his ways are not our ways and his thoughts not our thoughts.

If God chose us before the foundations of the world for his purpose and good pleasure and not based on us, does that mean God is no longer LOVE or that he didn't love those going to Hell, by no means! why can't you just accept that this is a paridox a mystery. just like you cannot explain the trinity neither will you be able to explain God choosing who he wants for all eternity.

Why do christians insist on bringing God down to their level of thinking and not just accept what his word has to say. is this not what the heathen does?

Bluefalcon · Apr 7, 2006

I think a case can be made that God's love, like many of his promises, is eventually conditional based on faith and obedience. I will crawl back into my hole now to elude assassination by stoning.

DeeJay · Apr 7, 2006

French

I know I am not the brightest, but I see no action in your answers. You agree love is an action. I just asked for a specific action. As in God did _________ for the un-chosen.

Your turn of the question does not work.

I can say the same thing to you and say well if God is really love then why did he ask man to make a choice to accept him why didn't he just allow everyone to go to Heaven?

This is why. If my neighbor is starving and I do nothing. I did not love. If my neighbor is starving and I give him food. However he refuses to eat. I still loved him.

All man is in need of salvation. God became man and lay down His life for us. The love is that God took the action that provided us the opertunity to be saved.

and if God is really love then why did he have his OWN son die on the cross. that isn't love now is it, DeeJay?

OH, lets not ignore one thing. Yes Jesus is the Son of God. But lets not forget JESUS IS GOD. God did not send someone else to die for our sins, He became man and sacraficed His own life for us. According the the Bible this is the greatest love.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.
John 15:13

I have posted above scripture several times. Does it not define love? Am I mis-useing it? Is it talking about what Jesus did for us?

DeeJay · Apr 7, 2006

According to you God is NO longer love because he didn't choose everyone to be saved only a few.

One more thing. This is not according to me because I reject that he didnt choose everyone to be saved.

God would like to see everyone saved. He provided the opertunity for everyone to be saved (love).

Sadly God knows few will take advantage of the opertunity he provided everyone. And it does not glorify Him to make people take that opertunity.

God is glorified by us choosing Him over evil with out being forced.

DeeJay · Apr 7, 2006

Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
I think a case can be made that God's love, like many of his promises, is eventually conditional based on faith and obedience. I will crawl back into my hole now to elude assassination by stoning.

Blue Gods love was becoming man and laying down his life for us. Cant take that back, its done.

My case for this John 3:16

AND

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:8

Blue, notice his love was given while we were still sinners. So much for His love being conditional upon faith and obediance.

This is the third scripture I have posted in this thread proving.

1. love is an action, not a feeling
2. Gods love for man was Jesus' work on the cross
3. Because Gods love has already been given in Jesus it can not be taken away.

Blue

I promise I will put my stone down long enough to listen to your case for conditional love. I dont think it will stand.

Bluefalcon · Apr 7, 2006

Hos. 9:15.

In Jn. 3:16 I do see a condition of believing.

bapmom · Apr 7, 2006

Blue,

yes, but that's because the "ball is now in our court", so to speak. God is love means God finished the ultimate ACT of love, and made it possible for everyone. This does not mean that all will believe and receive Him. God has still performed the action of love for everyone, including the "un-chosen."

Bluefalcon · Apr 7, 2006

Originally posted by bapmom:
Blue,

yes, but that's because the "ball is now in our court", so to speak. God is love means God finished the ultimate ACT of love, and made it possible for everyone. This does not mean that all will believe and receive Him. God has still performed the action of love for everyone, including the "un-chosen."

My dear sister, you indeed may be right and I may be wrong. If so, I'm willing to change back to the correct position. If not, you should change to the correct position, okay?

Okay, here goes. Jn. 3:16 says, "For God had so great a love for the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so that nobody who believes in him will perish, rather, everybody who believes in him will have eternal life."

Here the term "world" itself appears simply to indicate those who believe and get saved, for God sent his Son to save the "world" (Jn. 3:17), and since only those who believe get saved (Jn. 3:16), therefore the meaning of "world", at least here, appears to be indicative of believers alone.

The same definition of "world", i.e., simply indicating those who believe, is found elsewhere in John (6:33, 51; 12:47). So the bold in Jn. 3:16 above simply reinforces the italics. And so it may be seen that God's love is not "unconditional" in the traditional sense of the word, and furthermore it is evident that God loves the righteous (those who believe), but hates the wicked (those who don't) and damns them, yet he has known and so elected those who choose believe since the founding of all eternity.

Frenchy · Apr 7, 2006

DeeJay my answer for the 4th time is right here in action for the unsaved

"Good question, I cannot explain God's love (his nature, his character) except that it is unconditional. it is not based on what we do or don't do, it just IS. the fact that God allows man to even exist is LOVE, for God to allow man to enjoy life is LOVE, for God to bestow gifts on the unjust is LOVE. who are we to question how his love should work?"

Magnetic Poles · Apr 7, 2006

What is love?

What is love?

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