What is necessary to become saved?

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
Matt no where in the Bible does it say that salvation by grace through faith is hard. Where one must count the cost is in discipleship/Lordship.

Salvation by grace through faith is easy. It is so easy to understand and do even a child can place their faith in the sacrifical death of Jesus.

That's all the Bible requires.

And salvation is not a possibility for Satan and the fallen angels, so what they believe or don't believe is irrelevant. Salvation by grace through faith has been made available to mankind, so it it vitally important what man believes or doesn't believe.

So if a man is thus saved and subsequently enters into a homosexual relationship and dies without repenting of that, is he still saved?

 

[J. Jump]

Eternally saved yes, but not saved in regard to the coming kingdom. Once a person is saved by grace through faith it is a done deal that can not undone. You didn't do anything to get grace and there is nothing that you can do to keep grace and there is nothing that you can do to lose grace.

Salvation by grace through faith makes a dead spirit alive. That's a one-time event. So once a person is saved their eternal destiny is secured. What comes into play after that point is the salvation of their soul. A person that dies without repenting of a homosexual relationship (which just one of many things that can hinder the salvation of the soul) their soul will not be saved in relation to the 1,000-year kingdom of Christ.

Hope that helps.

 

[gekko]

nope.

bible says that "all liars, thiefs, adulterers, homosexuals... etc. will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

i know it doesn't say homosexuals in most bibles.

but the point is this: if the person does not turn from sin. does not depart from iniquity.

he/she is not saved.

 

[Matt Black]

Not really. You make a strange distinction between Spirit and soul which I simply don't buy, based on some kind of millenialism, it would appear; where's the chapter and verse which bears out your stance?

{ETA - reply to Jump]

 

[J. Jump]

Matt the whole of the Bible speaks to these matters, but salvation of the soul can be seen specifically in James, I Peter and Hebrews.

If you are interested in studying this out Scripturally send me a PM and I'll give you some resources.

Gekko entering the kingdom of heaven is not equal with eternal salvation. They are two separate matters.

So you are correct that he/she is not saved, but it's not a matter of eternal salvation, it is a matter of the kingdom.

 

[gekko]

where's the scripture differing the kingdom from eternal salvation?


and its only eternal salvation as long as the person is still a true believer. no?

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
Matt the whole of the Bible speaks to these matters, but salvation of the soul can be seen specifically in James, I Peter and Hebrews.

But not the differentiation between soul and spirit which you make. Nor do I accept your brand of millenialism as it runs counter to the teaching of Christ's Church; chiliasm was condemned by the First Council of Constantinople: "His Kingdom will have no end."

 

[J. Jump]

No. Eternal salvation is a one-time event that can never be reversed. When a person places their faith in Jesus as dying in their place on the cross as their substitute for the payment of sin their spirit is made alive by the Holy Spirit. That can never be reversed. Their spirit will always remain alive no matter what they do and or believe from that point forward. Hence the eternal security of the believer.

Now as to your original question. Context will tell us that the two are different. Eternal salvation requires no works (Ephesians 2). However entrance into the kingdom requires obedience and faithfulness. In short they require works. A man that puts his hand to the plow (starts working) and then looks back is not fit for the kingdom.

If you are interested PM and I'll send you some resources to help you work through what is being discussed.

 

[J. Jump]

But not the differentiation between soul and spirit which you make. Nor do I accept your brand of millenialism as it runs counter to the teaching of Christ's Church; chiliasm was condemned by the First Council of Constantinople: "His Kingdom will have no end."

Matt God separated light from darkness in Genesis 1. The spiritual application is that when one is made alive spiritually the spirit enters the light and the body and the soul remain in darkness. Therefore the soul and the spirit are separated according to Hebrews 4:12.

Light and darkness have not fellowship. The spirit in in the light and can have no fellowship with the soul that remains in darkness.

Edit - I forgot to address your second part -

Essentially His kingdom will not have an end. Christ will rule for 1,000-years with a rod of iron putting everything back in its normal place and making order out of chaos. After that is completed the kingdom will be given back to God and the throne then becomes the throne of God and the Lamb. And eternity begins and therefore you have no end of the kingdom.

So there is no contradiction here.

 

[Claudia_T]

xdisciplex:

You need to come to Jesus JUST AS YOU ARE. If you wait to make yourself better first, you will never come to Him.

You do not need to repent first to come to Jesus. He draws you with His love to Himself. It is the reassurance of His great love that draws the sinner home. Accept of this great love, believe God loves you, do not resist His drawing.

Those are the first steps for you to take.

You will find nothing whatsoever within yourself to recommend you to God.

And please stop your worrying about going to Hell. You are going to worry yourself right into it, if you keep on this way. You need to focus upon God's love.

Claudia

 

[nate]

One must place their faith in Jesus Christ as the Risen Saviour believe they are lost and accept Christ into their life to become their "Master" and Lord. Then follow Him. Let's not be the 1 talent Christian.
In Christ,
Nate

 

[Matt Black]

Jump, that's an interesting attempt to reconcile faith and works but...nice try, but no cigar

What Nate said

 

[J. Jump]

Matt that is the only way to reconcile faith and works. They can not go together any other way. That's why people have struggled with so many verses in the NT. That's why Martin Luther had such a hard time with the book of James. He didn't see how grace and works could be reconciled, so he basically wrote off the book of James.

Well he's right. Grace and works don't mix. He just didn't understand, as most people don't that works are involved in the salvation of the soul, which is really just another way of describing sanctification.

There is no denying that grace is taught and that works are taught. Most people try to cram works into grace by saying that one must "prove" their salvation by works, better known as Lordship salvation. But that is a works salvation that these people just don't acknowledge. Works and grace do not mix at any time or in any way.

 

[Chemnitz]

What is necessary? Faith in Christ which is built up in us by the Holy Spirit by the means of the fulfilled promises of Christ.

One must place their faith in Jesus Christ as the Risen Saviour believe they are lost and accept Christ into their life to become their "Master" and Lord.

I have never really liked hearing it said this way because it makes conversion/salvation sound like something that we do.

 

[gekko]

its the law that drives the sinner home. along with the grace to cradle him.

not repenting before coming to Jesus... that's just absurd.

in fact. it should happen all at once at the same time. we come to Jesus by repentance and acceptance at the same time.

 

[Hope of Glory]

1 Thessalonians 5:23 distinctly delineates between the soul and the spirit: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That being said, here's a sermon on the salvation of the soul. You can download the pdf and/or the mp3, or simply read it online: Salvation of the Soul

 

[Claudia_T]

gekko,

repentence is a gift from God, you cant receive repentence unless you come to God first to get it.

Therefore if you wait till you are repentent before you come to God you'll never come.

Claudia

 

[gekko]

like i said. repentance and coming to Christ are one in the same. happens at the same time.

i know we cannot repent on our own deal.

lets look at faith according to James 2.

we need faith to beable to be saved. no?

well. without works, faith is dead. faith without works is dead. therefore, without works, there is no faith. therefore... no being saved. correct?

no i am not saying that doing works will save us. bible says that faith comes first before works. but the works support the faith.

one can be in the church, read the word, sing praises to God and all that. yet if he does not go out there and represent the Lord with action. he is nothing. he's like a capt. of a boat sittin in the lifeboat wiping peoples noses while the rest of the crew is out in the water drownin.

you pickin up what im puttin down now?

 

[billwald]

First, to be one of the elect, over which one has no control

Second, the Holy Spirit regenerates the elect

Third, the regenerate person becomes interested in salvation and is converted by his response.

God can save anyone "in Jesus" whom he elects.

 

[Claudia_T]

God has made the first advance. While you were in rebellion against Him, He went forth to seek you. With the tender heart of the shepherd He left the ninety and nine and went out into the wilderness to find that which was lost. The soul, bruised and wounded and ready to perish, He encircles in His arms of love and joyfully bears it to the fold of safety.

It was taught by the Jews that before God's love is extended to the sinner, he must first repent. In their view, repentance is a work by which men earn the favor of Heaven. And it was this thought that led the Pharisees to exclaim in astonishment and anger. "This man receiveth sinners." According to their ideas He should permit none to approach Him but those who had repented. But in the parable of the lost sheep, Christ teaches that salvation does not come through our seeking after God but through God's seeking after us. "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way." Rom. 3:11, 12. We do not repent in order that God may love us, but He reveals to us His love in order that we may repent.