What is our responsibility as Christians

[Pastor David]

IF we were back under the Old Covenant, and OT law, would be pretty much cut and dried! BUT

Since we are not today, i do see the difference between making same sex marriage illegal, and saying they cannot chose to do that, or be punished for it!

The Scriptural quote I offer is from the New Testament author Paul. But whether old or new, the Christian should be willing to apply all of scripture to all of life.

 

[JesusFan]

The Scriptural quote I offer is from the New Testament author Paul. But whether old or new, the Christian should be willing to apply all of scripture to all of life.

Paul would agree with us that Homosexuality is a sinful behaviour/practice, church ought to preach out against it from being seen as an 'acceptable lifestyle" BUT

my point is that paul nor jesus ever said stone them/throw them in jail if they decide to do that!

can legislate mo marriages accepted, but they can still do that, but we still need to point out that its wrong!

 

[Pastor David]

Paul would agree with us that Homosexuality is a sinful behaviour/practice, church ought to preach out against it from being seen as an 'acceptable lifestyle" BUT

my point is that paul nor jesus ever said stone them/throw them in jail if they decide to do that!

can legislate mo marriages accepted, but they can still do that, but we still need to point out that its wrong!

Paul never said to seperate our faith from our calling either. Therefore, if called to civil service as a legislature, we have no precedent from Scripture to act other than that with our Christian convictions. Let me ask this of you,

If the Christian is not to judge morality, right and wrong, based upon God's own standard of righteousness, from what other source is the Christian to determine what is right and wrong and legislate law?

 

[plain_n_simple]

"What is our responsibility as Christians?"

Beware of Herods leaven.

 

[marke]

As Christians how far should we go in seeking our legislators to pass laws that are based strictly on what we feel are moral issues? In other words should we seek laws limiting someone's activities that have no direct effect on others, but are personal choices? For instance should we seek what are called blue laws? Laws that shut down most business on Sunday or have them all appealed? How about laws that make it illegal to use drugs or should we let each decide if or what they use while only restricting what they do while taking them such as driving? It is legal for people to drink and even get drunk as long as they do it privately so why not the taking of drugs and getting high?
How about homosexuality as that is a personal choice that effects no one but the two involved? How about them marrying? It used to be illegal and the church was the reason why and people went to prison for doing it. Now it is not. Should we seek to make that illegal again. Or how about prostitution? Should that be made legal as it is an agreement between two consenting adults? How about having multiple husbands or wives? Should we seek to repeal those laws that stop it or seek to keep them? Why isn’t that a personal choice as it causes no harm to others so should it be legal? Or how about dog fighting or fighting chickens? How about suicide? That is a person's choice so should that be legalized? Why or why not?
As Christians in a society where we are the government along with every other citizen should we seek to impose our moral values on others through legislation/laws who are not Christians or allow them to live as they see fit as long as their activities have no direct influence on another or might cause physical harm or death to another? What do you think God expects of us as Christians who live under this form of government as how we are to seek our legislators in the making of laws? Take each one of those mentioned and give an answer as to why it should or should not be legal based on a free society and the church not being under law.

Nobody should go too far too fast before getting instructions from the Lord. Too many Christians hitch their wagon to the front of the horses instead of behind. All moral and Biblical issues are worth advocating for, but we need the Lord to help us in our ways and means of advocating for those issues. He gives wisdom to those who humbly ask. I don't find fault, however, with anyone doing what they can to push for Biblical principles in govt. as long as they don't use ungodly means in the attempt.

 

[JesusFan]

Paul never said to seperate our faith from our calling either. Therefore, if called to civil service as a legislature, we have no precedent from Scripture to act other than that with our Christian convictions. Let me ask this of you,

If the Christian is not to judge morality, right and wrong, based upon God's own standard of righteousness, from what other source is the Christian to determine what is right and wrong and legislate law?

We as christians and as the church in America aree indeed called by God to "judge/discern/expose sin" but we are NOT to impose our standards upon society, as they will have to choose between doing right and wrong...

Are you saying that we should make it illegal to be 'gay/another religion/" etc?

In a "democracy" like ours, people given options to chose....

 

[Pastor David]

JF: "We as christians and as the church in America aree indeed called by God to "judge/discern/expose sin" but we are NOT to impose our standards upon society, as they will have to choose between doing right and wrong..."

Me: Are we not now living under somebody's imposed standards?

JF: "Are you saying that we should make it illegal to be 'gay/another religion/" etc?"

Me: "I'm saying Christians need to be willing to look good and hard at what God says about these things, and apply His Word to every aspect of their life, be it in the family, the church, or the state. No area of the created order should be exempt from God's own standard, for the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof!

 

[JesusFan]

JF: "We as christians and as the church in America aree indeed called by God to "judge/discern/expose sin" but we are NOT to impose our standards upon society, as they will have to choose between doing right and wrong..."

Me: Are we not now living under somebody's imposed standards?

JF: "Are you saying that we should make it illegal to be 'gay/another religion/" etc?"

Me: "I'm saying Christians need to be willing to look good and hard at what God says about these things, and apply His Word to every aspect of their life, be it in the family, the church, or the state. No area of the created order should be exempt from God's own standard, for the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof!

Would you be for the USA to adopt as our rule of law the law that governed ancient isreal?

 

[HankD]

Let me remind you. This is about the how we are to do in government not the church. So what is yourt answer? As Christians should we seek to get our legislators to allow the things I the OP or not?

Hi FAL,

Yes, of course. I was asserting my opinion that according to the scripture everything we do should be tempered by our faith and the word of God.

However it is not a simple yes or no answer.
As to each your inquiries, we all have our personal interpretation/opinions which is also a freedom according to our Constitution and also according to the Baptists Distinctives.

e.g. I would hope that everyone here at the BB has a pro-life view and exercises their right to vote to eliminate pro-death.

Sadly, this is not true or at least seems that way from what I remember from the past though it was a small minority.

I believe a pro-death view is not allowed to be advanced here at the BB, not sure.

Same with the God ordained institution of marriage and its scriptural definition.

So, yes, I use my freedoms tempered by faith and the word of God within the framework of government to advance righteousness.

However, living within a "multi-everything" society ruled by a representative government (at least in the beginning) there are other forces at play even from within the "religious communities" with which we contend.

These forces go against the wishes of the true children of God and would (if they could and often do) keep us from exercising these rights under the banner of "political correctness" for example and are even labeled as hate crimes in some societies.

HankD

 

[JesusFan]

Hi FAL,

Yes, of course. I was asserting my opinion that according to the scripture everything we do should be tempered by our faith and the word of God.

However it is not a simple yes or no answer.
As to each your inquiries, we all have our personal interpretation/opinions which is also a freedom according to our Constitution and also according to the Baptists Distinctives.

e.g. I would hope that everyone here at the BB has a pro-life view and exercises their right to vote to eliminate pro-death.

Sadly, this is not true or at least seems that way from what I remember from the past though it was a small minority.

I believe a pro-death view is not allowed to be advanced here at the BB, not sure.

Same with the God ordained institution of marriage and its scriptural definition.

So, yes, I use my freedoms tempered by faith and the word of God within the framework of government to advance righteousness.

However, living within a "multi-everything" society ruled by a representative government (at least in the beginning) there are other forces at play even from within the "religious communities" with which we contend.

These forces go against the wishes of the true children of God and would (if they could and often do) keep us from exercising these rights under the banner of "political correctness" for example and are even labeled as hate crimes in some societies.

HankD

Would you then agree with me that while we need to vote based upon biblical principles/guidelines, and should seek to have laws passed reflecting them...

In our type of government, we would still have to allow for others to chose 'badly/sinful" if they so desire?

Thinking in regrads to need to outlaw gay marriages as being sinful, not a valid biblical marriage arrangement, but IF they still seek to be a 'couple" cannot step in and outlaw that relationship?

That there are some things that we should and must legislate, but other things have to leave open to personal choices?

 

[HankD]

Would you then agree with me that while we need to vote based upon biblical principles/guidelines, and should seek to have laws passed reflecting them...

In our type of government, we would still have to allow for others to chose "badly/sinful" if they so desire?

Thinking in regrads to need to outlaw gay marriages as being sinful, not a valid biblical marriage arrangement, but IF they still seek to be a 'couple" cannot step in and outlaw that relationship?

That there are some things that we should and must legislate, but other things have to leave open to personal choices?

Hi JF,

That we have to allow for certain things is a given over which we have no control as it comes along with the Bill of Rights.

If it comes to a vote then I would choose against the modern perversions of marriage and child murder.

People don't need my permission to allow for them to choose badly/sinful".
They do that without my allowing it.

e.g. Personally I don't allow but I am compelled by law to tolerate "legal" perversions and abortion - opposition is my mode of action when the legal opportunity presents itself, and prayer against such things being legalized is ever-present.

HankD

 

[plain_n_simple]

Politics are of the world, man made doctrines. We are in the world not of it. The Kingdom operates on the earth, but the Kingdom cannot be seen by the world. Beware of Herods leaven.

 

[JesusFan]

Politics are of the world, man made doctrines. We are in the world not of it. The Kingdom operates on the earth, but the Kingdom cannot be seen by the world. Beware of Herods leaven.

jesus and paul though recognized politics/governements as "necessary evils"

And that is how the Roman Empire was changed,by Christians rising up in roles such as Senators/trubutes etc, finally as Emporer in Constitine!

 

[freeatlast]

I personally believe that as Christians our responsibility is to vote for people who have the mind of Christ and will express that when they legislate laws as well as pressure those people who are nto of the Lord to put in place laws that agree with how God would have us govern a nation. As believers I believe we should seek the same standards to govern this nation that God set down for Israel as unto righteousness excluding the religious ceremonies.
I have no doubt that when His children do as He would do in and towards the nation the whole nation receives the blessings. Everything mentioned in the OP should be sought by believers to be part of our judicial code in the same way with the same punishments as God grave in the bible. I do not believe any of His standards for governing a nation will ever harm that nation, but rather bring a blessing that even the lost can realize and I believe it is our responsibility to seek those laws for this nation.

 

[plain_n_simple]

The followers of Jesus wanted to make Him natural King. He departed from them.

Pilate wanted to know about His Kingdom, if it was a physical threat to the Roman Empire. He replied it was a Kingdom not of this world.

We war not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual powers. These spiritual powers are from Satan, called man made government.

Democracy is not from God. It is a selfish doctrine. "We the People" "The Bill of Rights" are in opposition to "deny yourself to become like Him.'

Jesus is Husband, we are the Bride. The Bride does not guide the Husband.

We are the Body. He is the Head. The Body does not tell the Head what to do.

He is the Good Shepherd, we are the sheep. The sheep do not lead the shepherd.

Beware the leaven of Herod.