What Is Paul's Thorn In the Flesh?

[Hark]

What is Paul's thorn in the flesh?

2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Paul described this thorn in the flesh as a "messenger of Satan" to buffet him. I discern this to be that he was hearing voices from the devil in accusing him and such. Since the devil is doing this now before the rapture with the brethren, I discern that is how the devil is buffeting him.

Revelation 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Some say it was his eyesight; some say it was some struggle in the flesh, but none aligns with "messenger of Satan" other than hearing voices.

This thorn in the flesh was to prevent believers from exalting him higher than they ought to think. Needing glasses would not do that, but hearing voices... the stigma would prevent people from exalting Paul higher than they ought to think in spite of all the revelations and visions that were coming from him as an apostle. It certainly would prevent him from getting a swell head or the foot of pride for having all those revelations & visions for which he had become reliant on God all the time to help him through his infirmities in life.

Scripture seems to be leading to this discernment. I believe the Lord has led me to discern this as truth.

So for all those that are classified as mentally ill, rely on Jesus Christ to help you through your trials in life.

 

[canadyjd]

Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” was constant persecution, beatings, opposition, physical distressed etc. while he proclaimed the gospel.

In fact, in 2 Cor 12: 10, which you quoted, Paul explains what he means by “thorn in the flesh”.

You seem to think it was “hearing voices”. You are attempting to apply a 21st century “stigma” to the first century. No such support in scripture for such a view.

peace to you

 

[Aaron]

none aligns with "messenger of Satan" other than hearing voices.

Sez who?

 

[kyredneck]

There is scriptural support for the notion that this 'thorn in the flesh' was most likely a speech impediment (like Moses), and not bad eyesight.

 

[Van]

When Paul was gored by a wildebeest, part of the horn broke off and remained in Paul's flesh. It became infected and caused his terrible pain. He prayed and prayed, but concluded that God's grace was sufficient. All this is documented in the NCIS autopsy report by Dr. Ducky. He removed the thorn and sent it to Abby who used DNA to determine the "thorn" was a young wildebeest. The infection had spread to his eyes, thus he wrote in large letters. Isn't filling in the blanks with speculation a waste of time?

 

[tyndale1946]

There is scriptural support for the notion that this 'thorn in the flesh' was most likely a speech impediment (like Moses), and not bad eyesight.

Well this is not a new thought, its been brought up before, so since this sister Amy.G in December 16, 2011 had the same thought I had, here is what I believe also.

My opinion, which amounts to.....pretty much nothin', is that the thorn was Satan's constant reminder to Paul that he had imprisoned and killed many of God's saints in the church, making him feel constant remorse and keeping him humble. He probably never understood why God would choose a man like him to spread the gospel. In fact he wrote about his unworthiness more than once.

I know from my own experience, that Satan brings up my past sins and it makes me feel worthless and unworthy, even though I know God has forgiven me. It's one of Satan's tools to try to make a Christian an ineffective witness.

I would like to add this, how many times did Paul preach to those whose relations, he was responsible for imprisoning, being beaten, persecuted and killed?... How would that weigh on him when he preached the gospel?... How does it weigh on you and me knowing where we came from effect us when we hear it?.... We ALL walk with feet of clay and Paul knew it... I guess we can see if anyone has some new insight since then... Here's the link it came from... Brother Glen

Paul's Thorn

 

[SavedByGrace]

All we have is we what we read in the Bible account, which does not tell us. So all the responses will be specualtion, and a waste of time!

 

[Hark]

Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” was constant persecution, beatings, opposition, physical distressed etc. while he proclaimed the gospel.

In fact, in 2 Cor 12: 10, which you quoted, Paul explains what he means by “thorn in the flesh”.

You seem to think it was “hearing voices”. You are attempting to apply a 21st century “stigma” to the first century. No such support in scripture for such a view.

peace to you

How does constant persecutions, beatings, opposition, physical distressed etc, keeps believers from being elevated higher than they ought to think?

2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Infirmities is referring to his own flesh and so he listed his thorn in the flesh by that alone while listing other things not associated with that thorn in the flesh of his infirmities that he goes through in life in serving Him.

Would Paul asks for an easy ministry? Did Paul actually think God would remove that as a thorn in the flesh?

I understand that Biblical scholars today would attribute that to verse 10 but it is not aligning with his infirmity in the flesh as being that thorn in the flesh for why he believed God gave it to him because of all the revelations & visons coming by him to prevent believers from thinking of him higher than they ought to think; not those who persecute him.

Look at Paul's prayer request in verse 8 as that cannot be applied to all the times he was being persecuted by others or every time he was reproach or every time in necessities or every time in distresses when he made that request 3 times

2 Corinthians 12: 5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Then you have to look at why that thorn in the flesh was given to him, which is to prevent believers from thinking or exalting him higher than they ought to at the end of verse 6 & the beginning of verse 7. That thorn in the flesh can hardly go to his persecution since obviously unbelievers are the only ones that would not think nor exalt him higher than they would think of him because of his visions & revelations since they are persecuting him as unbelievers.

It is the believers that would think or exalt him higher than they ought to for why he is given this thorn in the flesh to prevent that. God permitted that thorn in his flesh to prevent believers from thinking of Paul higher than they ought to think because of his visons & revelations. His unbelieving persecutors are in no danger of thinking that of him.

 

[canadyjd]

All we have is we what we read in the Bible account, which does not tell us. So all the responses will be specualtion, and a waste of time!

No need to speculate because Paul identifies his “thorn in the flesh” (2 Cor 12:7) in verse 10. It is suffering.... “infirmities, reproaches, necessities, persecutions, distresses... for Christ’s sake”

Basically, he suffers hardship wherever he goes preaching the gospel. That was the promise Jesus made to him on the road to Damascus. God’s enabling grace was all he needed in his life.

peace to you

 

[Hark]

Sez who?

Discern the scripture in the OP with Him.

It is the believers that would think or exalt him higher than they ought to for why he is given this thorn in the flesh to prevent that. God permitted that thorn in his flesh to prevent believers from thinking of Paul higher than they ought to think because of his visons & revelations.

Paul's unbelieving persecutors are in no danger of thinking that of him.

 

[canadyjd]

How does constant persecutions, beatings, opposition, physical distressed etc, keeps believers from being elevated higher than they ought to think?

2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Infirmities is referring to his own flesh and so he listed his thorn in the flesh by that alone while listing other things not associated with that thorn in the flesh of his infirmities that he goes through in life in serving Him.

Would Paul asks for an easy ministry? Did Paul actually think God would remove that as a thorn in the flesh?

I understand that Biblical scholars today would attribute that to verse 10 but it is not aligning with his infirmity in the flesh as being that thorn in the flesh for why he believed God gave it to him because of all the revelations & visons coming by him to prevent believers from thinking of him higher than they ought to think; not those who persecute him.

Look at Paul's prayer request in verse 8 as that cannot be applied to all the times he was being persecuted by others or every time he was reproach or every time in necessities or every time in distresses when he made that request 3 times

2 Corinthians 12: 5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Then you have to look at why that thorn in the flesh was given to him, which is to prevent believers from thinking or exalting him higher than they ought to at the end of verse 6 & the beginning of verse 7. That thorn in the flesh can hardly go to his persecution since obviously unbelievers are the only ones that would not think nor exalt him higher than they would think of him because of his visions & revelations since they are persecuting him as unbelievers.

It is the believers that would think or exalt him higher than they ought to for why he is given this thorn in the flesh to prevent that. God permitted that thorn in his flesh to prevent believers from thinking of Paul higher than they ought to think because of his visons & revelations. His unbelieving persecutors are in no danger of thinking that of him.

Paul’s authority as an Apostle was questioned by some believers who desired to break into factions in the Corinthian church. They used his constant persecutions as evidence God was not approving of his doctrine and ministry.

Paul turned their argument around on them, explaining the purpose of his suffering was to keep him humble and become dependent on God’s enabling grace. To that end, he embraced his persecutions and sufferings and rejoiced he was being strengthened by God for His purpose.

peace to you

 

[Hark]

There is scriptural support for the notion that this 'thorn in the flesh' was most likely a speech impediment (like Moses), and not bad eyesight.

But Paul said this...

1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So it does not stand to reason that this was his thorn in the flesh in that he had asked the Lord to remove from him in 2 Corinthians 12:1-10 .

Then you have that messenger of Satan that buffet him in the flesh. Messenger or voice of Satan is how I see it as mental illness is described to day as any one that hear voices are thought of less in people's minds than they care to admit. That would prevent believers from thinking higher than they ought to think or exalt him because of all the revelations & visions that he has shared with them. They can see God ministering thru him but that thorn in the flesh puts their sights in exalting God & not him.

So God can use anyone in ministry, but discernment is needed who God is using for why God is exalted.

 

[Hark]

When Paul was gored by a wildebeest, part of the horn broke off and remained in Paul's flesh. It became infected and caused his terrible pain. He prayed and prayed, but concluded that God's grace was sufficient. All this is documented in the NCIS autopsy report by Dr. Ducky. He removed the thorn and sent it to Abby who used DNA to determine the "thorn" was a young wildebeest. The infection had spread to his eyes, thus he wrote in large letters. Isn't filling in the blanks with speculation a waste of time?

How was Messenger of Satan applied? One can confirm application when they address all the clues to what that thorn in the flesh is and why he had it.

His injury would not prevent people from thinking of him higher than they ought to think because of his revelations & visions.

His thorn in the flesh has to be something that would prevent believers from thinking of him higher than what they ought to think because of his revelations & visions.

Therefore it cannot be that injury, nor his failing eyesight nor his being persecuted by others as none of those things would really prevent regarding the believers from thinking of Him higher than they ought to think, but hearing voices from Satan would

 

[SavedByGrace]

No need to speculate because Paul identifies his “thorn in the flesh” (2 Cor 12:7) in verse 10. It is suffering.... “infirmities, reproaches, necessities, persecutions, distresses... for Christ’s sake”

Basically, he suffers hardship wherever he goes preaching the gospel. That was the promise Jesus made to him on the road to Damascus. God’s enabling grace was all he needed in his life.

peace to you

there you go, joining in what the speculation! In verse 8 Paul says, "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me", which is hardly “infirmities, reproaches, necessities, persecutions, distresse", when he says elsewhere, "
22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: 23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. 24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God." Acts 20. So your theory is out!

 

[Hark]

Well this is not a new thought, its been brought up before, so since this sister Amy.G in December 16, 2011 had the same thought I had, here is what I believe also.

My opinion, which amounts to.....pretty much nothin', is that the thorn was Satan's constant reminder to Paul that he had imprisoned and killed many of God's saints in the church, making him feel constant remorse and keeping him humble. He probably never understood why God would choose a man like him to spread the gospel. In fact he wrote about his unworthiness more than once.

I know from my own experience, that Satan brings up my past sins and it makes me feel worthless and unworthy, even though I know God has forgiven me. It's one of Satan's tools to try to make a Christian an ineffective witness.

I would like to add this, how many times did Paul preach to those whose relations, he was responsible for imprisoning, being beaten, persecuted and killed?... How would that weigh on him when he preached the gospel?... How does it weigh on you and me knowing where we came from effect us when we hear it?.... We ALL walk with feet of clay and Paul knew it... I guess we can see if anyone has some new insight since then... Here's the link it came from... Brother Glen

Paul's Thorn

Thank you for sharing the link to that thread in this forum back in 2011.

I am not sure any believer would hold anything against Paul when he was Saul as a sinner. Indeed, that would be like holding a grudge against Paul if that was the reason why they would not think of him higher than they ought to think or exalt him because of the abundance of revelations and visions coming by him. If by a grudge, they would not listen to him at all.

I understand your application, but this entails more than just Paul's remorse when this thorn in the flesh was preventing any one from thinking higher of him than they ought to think so this thorn in the flesh entails more than just Paul for why it was given to him. Indeed, as this was given to him and not something he had brought on himself, it cannot be Paul's remorse.

So messenger of Satan or the voice of Satan as hearing voices would be something that would prevent believers from thinking higher than they ought to think or exalting him above measure seeing how it is God ministering thru Paul to Whom Paul constantly gives the credit to in all of his ministry in serving Him.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

If we know someone that hear voices and yet God is using them in ministry, I am certain that it would prevent us from thinking of him higher than we ought to think regardless of the many visions and revelations coming by him.

 

[Hark]

All we have is we what we read in the Bible account, which does not tell us. So all the responses will be specualtion, and a waste of time!

Discernment with Him is needed as Paul's testimony regarding that thorn in the flesh is a messenger of Satan that was give to him to prevent believers from thinking higher of him than they ought to think because of all the revelations & visions.

Since Paul prayed 3 times to have it removed & God said no and why, then it was something he had to live with that would prevent believers from thinking higher than they ought to think of him.

And so it cannot be because of failing eyesight, speech impediment, persecution, or an injury as Van referenced or Paul's remorse as tyndale1946 has posted.

If we consider today how people with mental illness are viewed or at the least when they testify of hearing voices from the devil, that would certainly prevent us from exalting them higher than we ought to think in spite of how God uses them in ministry.

So it had to be for Paul back then.

 

[Hark]

there you go, joining in what the speculation! In verse 8 Paul says, "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me", which is hardly “infirmities, reproaches, necessities, persecutions, distresse", when he says elsewhere, "
22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: 23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. 24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God." Acts 20. So your theory is out!

See how you had reprove the misapplication of the scripture by using scripture? That is how you can discern with Him all applications or speculations on scripture to find the truth in His words as it cannot go against the truth of scripture elsewhere..

 

[Hark]

Paul’s authority as an Apostle was questioned by some believers who desired to break into factions in the Corinthian church. They used his constant persecutions as evidence God was not approving of his doctrine and ministry.

Paul turned their argument around on them, explaining the purpose of his suffering was to keep him humble and become dependent on God’s enabling grace. To that end, he embraced his persecutions and sufferings and rejoiced he was being strengthened by God for His purpose.

peace to you

Since Paul was addressing this thorn in the flesh as something that was given to him and had asked 3 times for God to remove it, it can hardly be referring to those persecutions within the church when it was given to him to prevent believers from thinking higher than they ought to think because of visions and revelations... not because of persecutions.

You are missing that Paul was listing it as one of his infirmities from as he dove into one of them as being that thorn in the flesh in 1 Corinthians 12:5 in regards to glorying in revelations & visions as he did regarding the apostle John in 2 Corinthians 12;1-5 in that regards to the Book of Revelations.

Now you overlook infirmities being listed among the other things Paul goes through in ministry in 2 Corinthians 12:10 but it would be best to read on a few more verses.

2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. 12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Paul's point in the context of that message was to convey that a thorn in the flesh as an infirmity in the flesh that would prevent believers from thinking of him higher than they ought to think because of visions & revelations. It cannot be persecutions because it is listed separate from infirmities as well as necessities, reproaches and distresses and those are not all related to what infirmities is at all. So as infirmities is listed as plural as referring to his physical flesh, then that thorn in the flesh is just one of his infirmities in the flesh, but that infirmity is identified as a messenger of Satan... hence hearing the voice of the devil.

People today would call that a mental illness and they would not think higher of Paul than they ought to think today also, but the believers back then see God using him in ministry to give God the glory for all his revelations & visions by him as coming from God..

 

[Aaron]

Discern the scripture in the OP with Him.

It is the believers that would think or exalt him higher than they ought to for why he is given this thorn in the flesh to prevent that. God permitted that thorn in his flesh to prevent believers from thinking of Paul higher than they ought to think because of his visons & revelations.

Paul's unbelieving persecutors are in no danger of thinking that of him.

In other words, God told you, and if I pray about it, He'll tell me, too. Will it be a 'burning in my bosom?'

It was his own pride that was in danger of being fueled by the abundance of revelations, so he was being pricked by a goad to keep him humble. The 'goad' was in the flesh, which rules out hearing the voices of 'satan's messengers' in his head, and it wasn't an unsound mind, which is the first thing to be purged by the indwelling of the Spirit. The 'thorn' was in the flesh. When Christ told him that his thorn made Christ's power more evident in his ministry, Paul's response shows us what the nature of that thorn was.

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
​

His thorn was something physical, and not something that would disqualify him from the ministry.

Besides, the non sequitur "messenger can only mean voices" is easily dispelled by the account of Peter's unwitting temptation of Christ to refuse the Cross. Matthew 16:23

 

[Hark]

In other words, God told you, and if I pray about it, He'll tell me, too. Will it be a 'burning in my bosom?'

Sorry if I come across that way but James also instructed believers to pray for wisdom and so that is all I am meaning to convey, brother.

This leaves me to be corrected when you see the wisdom from Him to correct me in rightly dividing the word of truth rather than leaving it as unaddressed, but since scripture cannot go against scripture, is why I see Him helping me rightly divide the word of truth as He will do that for you too per James 1:5-6 & Hebrews 4:12-16

I have been pruned and corrected in my walk with the Lord even through others & this will continue till He brings me Home but we can only correct by scripture if we expect to rightly dividing the word of truth without opposing other truths in scripture..

It was his own pride that was in danger of being fueled by the abundance of revelations, so he was being pricked by a goad to keep him humble. The 'goad' was in the flesh, which rules out hearing the voices of 'satan's messengers' in his head, and it wasn't an unsound mind, which is the first thing to be purged by the indwelling of the Spirit. The 'thorn' was in the flesh. When Christ told him that his thorn made Christ's power more evident in his ministry, Paul's response shows us what the nature of that thorn was.

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
​

His thorn was something physical, and not something that would disqualify him from the ministry.

Besides, the non sequitur "messenger can only mean voices" is easily dispelled by the account of Peter's unwitting temptation of Christ to refuse the Cross. Matthew 16:23

Still do not see messenger of Satan to buffet in the flesh as it was given to him for how you apply it to mean when this also prevented others from exalting him and not just keeping him humble as you applied it to mean.

Paul has written in 1 Corinthians 3:5-7 that he was nothing. He repeated it in that same chapter regarding that thorn in the flesh.

2 Corinthians 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. KJV

Paul does not look like someone having a problem with pride. That is why I do not see your application to be here.

Plus; What is the point of using that phrase.. "messenger of Satan" in regards to this thorn in the flesh personally in his flesh as if by some physical infirmity that he prayed 3 times for it to be removed but God said no in effect & why??

That is why in spite of all the kind corrections and attempts by reproofs by application of other scripture, I still se it as hearing voices and from the devil no less as Paul's thorn in the flesh. But I leave myself open to correction from the Lord is need be as I trust Him to do it or through someone else by rightly dividing the word of truth without glossing over certain wordings or phrases that would suggest other wise and without going against the truth in scripture elsewhere.

Thanks again for sharing.