what is repentance?

[Joe]

Oh this is good !

DHK and Brother Bob, head to head.

Both doing an excellent job of providing scripture and making their case.

Who will it be?

 

[Linda64]

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]
compunction
COMPUNCTION, n. L. To prick or sting.

1. A pricking; stimulation; irritation; seldom used in a literal sense.

2. A pricking of heart; poignant grief or remorse proceeding from a consciousness of guilt; the pain of sorrow or regret for having offended God, and incurred his wrath; the sting of conscience proceeding from a conviction of having violated a moral duty.

He acknowledged his disloyalty to the king, with expressions of great compunction.

 

[Brother Bob]

Thanks Linda;

 

[npetreley]

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]

News flash. It's 2007.

 

[Linda64]

From Harry A. Ironside: Except Ye Repent, Chapter 1: Repentance: It's Nature and Importance

God desires truth in the inward parts. The blessed man is still the one "in whose spirit there is no guile." It is forever true that "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." It can never be out of place to proclaim salvation by free, unmerited favor to all who put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. But it needs ever to be insisted on that the faith that justifies is not a mere intellectual process -- not simply crediting certain historical facts or doctrinal statements; but it is a faith that springs from a divinely wrought conviction of sin which produces a repentance that is sincere and genuine.

The entire booklet can be found here

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Linda64
Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]

News flash. It's 2007.

Don't you know 2007 is saying the same???


compunction;
1 a: anxiety arising from awareness of guilt <compunctions of conscience> b: distress of mind over an anticipated action or result

 

[npetreley]

Don't you know 2007 is saying the same???


compunction;
1 a: anxiety arising from awareness of guilt <compunctions of conscience> b: distress of mind over an anticipated action or result

Yes, well, close enough. But that's not always the case. It drives me crazy when KJV people think the language stopped changing at 1828, and we can continue to go to our 1828 dictionary to see what a word means. That's fine if you want to know what a word MEANT IN THE KJV, but it is foolish to keep using the 1828 to understand words as they are used TODAY.

 

[Linda64]

News flash. It's 2007.

News flash! The meaning of "compunction" hasn't changed in 2007!

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
com·punc·tion Pronunciation [kuhm-puhngk-shuhn]
–noun

1. a feeling of uneasiness or anxiety of the conscience caused by regret for doing wrong or causing pain; contrition; remorse.

2. any uneasiness or hesitation about the rightness of an action.
[Origin: 1350–1400; ME compunccion (< AF) < LL compūnctiōn- (s. of compūnctiō), equiv. to L compūnct(us), ptp. of compungere to prick severely (com- com- + pungere to prick; cf. point) + -iōn- -ion]
***********************************************************
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) -
con·tri·tion Pronunciation [kuhn-trish-uhn]
–noun
1. sincere penitence or remorse.

2. Theology. sorrow for and detestation of sin with a true purpose of amendment, arising from a love of God for His own perfections (perfect contrition), or from some inferior motive, as fear of divine punishment (imperfect contrition).
[Origin: 1250–1300; ME contricio(u)n (< AF) < LL contrītiōn- (s. of contrītiō). See contrite, -ion]

—Synonyms 1. compunction, regret.
*************************************************************
Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

 

[npetreley]

It's not exactly the same, but I'm not going to argue about this particular definition. The point is, if you want to get a reliable definition of a word AS IT IS USED TODAY, use a CURRENT dictionary, not the 1828.

You KJV people seem to think the world revolves around KJV/1828 Webster's English. IT DOES NOT. Even at Pentecost the Holy Spirit got the apostles to speak in languages people could understand NATIVELY. The Spirit didn't get all the apostles to suddenly start speaking in Webster's 1828 English, as if there's something HOLY about it.

Don't get me wrong. I love the KJV. But I speak contemporary English, like just about everyone else.

 

[Linda64]

Yes, well, close enough. But that's not always the case. It drives me crazy when KJV people think the language stopped changing at 1828, and we can continue to go to our 1828 dictionary to see what a word means. That's fine if you want to know what a word MEANT IN THE KJV, but it is foolish to keep using the 1828 to understand words as they are used TODAY.

In many cases, the 1828 Dictionary is closer to the "original intent" of the Word of God than the modern dictionaries of TODAY.

 

[npetreley]

In many cases, the 1828 Dictionary is closer to the "original intent" of the Word of God than the modern dictionaries of TODAY.

According to you, apparently, the Word of God is the KJV. Like I said, it's fine for understanding a word in the KJV. But it's not appropriate for defining a word as it is used now -- whether from regular conversation OR FROM A MODERN TRANSLATION -- which is ALSO the Word of God.

 

[webdog]

According to you, apparently, the Word of God is the KJV. Like I said, it's fine for understanding a word in the KJV. But it's not appropriate for defining a word as it is used now -- whether from regular conversation OR FROM A MODERN TRANSLATION -- which is ALSO the Word of God.

Modern translations have the word 'beer' in it. The KJV uses 'strong drink' which obviously is referring to a double venti red-eye from Starbucks...

 

[TCGreek]

Heb. 12:17 seems to suggest that Repentance can be accompanied by tears, but does not necessarily must involve tears:

"He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears." NIV

 

[EdSutton]

It's not exactly the same, but I'm not going to argue about this particular definition. The point is, if you want to get a reliable definition of a word AS IT IS USED TODAY, use a CURRENT dictionary, not the 1828.

You KJV people seem to think the world revolves around KJV/1828 Webster's English. IT DOES NOT. Even at Pentecost the Holy Spirit got the apostles to speak in languages people could understand NATIVELY. The Spirit didn't get all the apostles to suddenly start speaking in Webster's 1828 English, as if there's something HOLY about it.

Don't get me wrong. I love the KJV. But I speak contemporary English, like just about everyone else.

Thee speaketh contemporary Englifh?? And thy brethren and sistren as welleth?? Sayeth it beeth not!

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Heb. 12:17 seems to suggest that Repentance can be accompanied by tears, but does not necessarily must involve tears:

"He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears." NIV

Thou beest exactly and indubitably righteth, TCGreek!!

30 Now it happened, as soon as Isaac had finished blessing Jacob, and Jacob had scarcely gone out from the presence of Isaac his father, that Esau his brother came in from his hunting. 31 He also had made savory food, and brought it to his father, and said to his father, “Let my father arise and eat of his son’s game, that your soul may bless me.”
32 And his father Isaac said to him, “Who are you?”
So he said, “I am your son, your firstborn, Esau.”
33 Then Isaac trembled exceedingly, and said, “Who? Where is the one who hunted game and brought it to me? I ate all of it before you came, and I have blessed him—and indeed he shall be blessed.”
34 When Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with an exceedingly great and bitter cry, and said to his father, “Bless me—me also, O my father!”
35 But he said, “Your brother came with deceit and has taken away your blessing.”
36 And Esau said, “Is he not rightly named Jacob? For he has supplanted me these two times. He took away my birthright, and now look, he has taken away my blessing!” And he said, “Have you not reserved a blessing for me?” 37 Then Isaac answered and said to Esau, “Indeed I have made him your master, and all his brethren I have given to him as servants; with grain and wine I have sustained him. What shall I do now for you, my son?”
38 And Esau said to his father, “Have you only one blessing, my father? Bless me—me also, O my father!” And Esau lifted up his voice and wept.
39 Then Isaac his father answered and said to him:

“ Behold, your dwelling shall be of the fatness of the earth,
And of the dew of heaven from above. 40 By your sword you shall live,
And you shall serve your brother;
And it shall come to pass, when you become restless,
That you shall break his yoke from your neck.” (Gen. 27:30-42 - NKJV, my emphases)

Outta' curiosity, did Jacob and Esau have any more brothers? Read Gen. 27:37! Hmmm! But enough of this 'de-rail', here.

The real problem comes when this blessing and the surrounding events, is read to mean eternal salvation. This blessing had nothing to do with that. Was Esau a saved man? I do not know. He was mad enough to kill Jacob, just as Cain killed righteous Abel. (Gen. 4:8) (And just as the men of Sodom were after righteous Lot, as well. Gen. 19:9; II Pet. 2:7) But he did get over some of the anger, at least, and was reconciled with Jacob. (Gen. 33) Was Jacob saved? Apparently, for he is one of those listed by Apollos, in the "Hall of Fame of faith" in Heb. 11.

Folks, reread some of my earlier posts on this. Salvation is not a "birthright", nor a "blessing", in the sense Isaac blessed the twins. Salvation is, was, always has been, and always will be a gift of God, by grace through faith. Scripture knows of no other, nor any other way to 'eternal salvation'. Read what Paul wrote about Abraham and David in Rom. 4!

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

Folks, reread some of my earlier posts on this. Salvation is not a "birthright", nor a "blessing", in the sense Isaac blessed the twins. Salvation is, was, always has been, and always will be a gift of God, by grace through faith. Scripture knows of no other, nor any other way to 'eternal salvation'. Read what Paul wrote about Abraham and David in Rom. 4!

Ed

Can you be saved while killing your neighbor's child???

 

[OLD SCHOOL]

What is repentence?
Action!
Going the opposite direction of which you were traveling.
Why?
Because you repented!

 

[EdSutton]

Can you be saved while killing your neighbor's child???

David was! In fact, after his adultery with whats-her-name ("her, who was/had been the wife of Uriah" II Sam. 11:3; 12:9,10; Matt. 1:6), also called the daughter of (Bath)Sheba (II Sam. 11:3), daughter of (Bath)Eliam (II Sam. 11:3), and daughter of (Bath)Shua (I Chr. 3:5), but her actual given name is never once given in Scripture (II Sam. 11; 12:9; Matt. 1:6), and plotting and ordering the effective murder of Uriah (II Sam. 12:9) and Paul was consenting to the death of Stephen, although he was not yet saved. But nowhere do I find that Scripture ever says that either Paul or David "repented".

It seems it certainly should not be so hard to find, considering how many I hear repeat this, ad nausea (sic).

There is a great deal of difference between admitting and "confessing one's sin", as did David (II Sam. 12:7-15; Ps.51:1-19) just as we are to do, today (I Jo. 1:6-10), and the broken spirit and heart that David had (and we should also have) as "love sacrifices", in contrast to some supposed undefined 'repentance of/from sin" (undefined, because Scripture never defines this anywhere) before one can be saved.

And this is what the thread is about. One can and should 'repent" i.e. have a "change of mind" about sin, once one is a believer. That is exactly what Paul is saying when he talks about Christian living in Rom. 4-8 and specifically -

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. (Rom. 7:14-15 - NKJV)

That is what a Biblical 'repentance from sin' is, and only one already saved can do this. For one who is unsaved, it is nothing more than a few more added "filthy rags" piled up in an attempt to "achieve" righteousness on one's own.

6 But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away. (Isa. 54:6 - NKJV)

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

What is repentence?
Action!
Going the opposite direction of which you were traveling.
Why?
Because you repented!

Got a Scripture on that? Especially that "action" bit??

Repeating it ad nausea (sic) still doesn't make it Biblical.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

David was! In fact, after his adultery with whats-her-name ("her, who was/had been the wife of Uriah" II Sam. 11:3; 12:9,10; Matt. 1:6), also called the daughter of (Bath)Sheba (II Sam. 11:3), daughter of (Bath)Eliam (II Sam. 11:3), and daughter of (Bath)Shua (I Chr. 3:5), but her actual given name is never once given in Scripture (II Sam. 11; 12:9; Matt. 1:6), and plotting and ordering the effective murder of Uriah (II Sam. 12:9) and Paul was consenting to the death of Stephen, although he was not yet saved. But nowhere do I find that Scripture ever says that either Paul or David "repented".

Are you saying that David was "saved" while in the act of killing someone?? If so, could you please give scripture instead of just giving your opinion.

Psa 32:1¶[[[A Psalm] of David, Maschil.]] Blessed [is he whose] transgression [is] forgiven, [whose] sin [is] covered.

Psa 38:18For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.

Jhn 21:25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.



What about Paul's works????

Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Act 9:7And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Act 9:8And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought [him] into Damascus.

Act 9:9And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.