What is Salvation by Faith?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

HOG: To accuse JJ of being Calvinist means that you are not reading what he's saying, and the way that you make up things and put them in his mouth shows that you assume he is Calvinist, without reason.

HP: Would you mind showing me where I called JJ a Calvinist? Is telling one that they are espousing Calvinism, or that they are promoting Calvinistic views, the same as calling one a Calvinist? Even if one it is, why should that bother anyone? If one is shown to hold views consistent with a well known and established doctrinal system such as Calvinism, why is it wrong or insensitive to point that out along with the logical ends of such reasoning?

When JJ or anyone else either denies or is oblivious to the separation of the grounds of salvation from the conditions of salvation, believing that God must grant the ability to them to believe or repent, and that God has predestined the elect to salvation, etc., they are accepting the heart and soul of the Calvinistic system whether they understand it as such or not.

If one desires not to have the doctrinal notions labeled as Calvinistic, the solution is simple. Distance yourself from the maelstrom of confusion it imbibes.

Is it strange that I have never been accuse of being Calvinistic or holding to Calvinistic tenants? The reason is that I clearly and consistently refute all five points as they are commonly understood and applied. JJ and others have the same freedom if in fact they do not desire to be associated with that system of thought.

 

[Darron Steele]

HP: Would you mind showing me where I called JJ a Calvinist? Is telling one that they are espousing Calvinism, or that they are promoting Calvinistic views, the same as calling one a Calvinist? Even if one it is, why should that bother anyone? If one is shown to hold views consistent with a well known and established doctrinal system such as Calvinism, why is it wrong or insensitive to point that out along with the logical ends of such reasoning?

When JJ or anyone else either denies or is oblivious to the separation of the grounds of salvation from the conditions of salvation, believing that God must grant the ability to them to believe or repent, and that God has predestined the elect to salvation, etc., they are accepting the heart and soul of the Calvinistic system whether they understand it as such or not.

If one desires not to have the doctrinal notions labeled as Calvinistic, the solution is simple. Distance yourself from the maelstrom of confusion it imbibes.

Is it strange that I have never been accuse of being Calvinistic or holding to Calvinistic tenants? The reason is that I clearly and consistently refute all five points as they are commonly understood and applied. JJ and others have the same freedom if in fact they do not desire to be associated with that system of thought.

I am bothered by the repeated "Calvinist" accusations. Any "telling one that they are espousing Calvinism" if directed at me would be understood as calling me a Calvinist.

This last post looks like an effort to use `guilt by association.' Here is what I see: `If he does not want to be characterized as a Calvinist, he should reject all of its tenets -- each and every one.' Hence, you seem to be saying `Until he drops all of those tenets, I am going to characterize him as a follower of the whole theological system.'

Is it okay for a person to study the Word of God, come to conclusions that happen to meet some tenets in a particular person's theological system, and not be labeled a follower of that person or his theological system? In biblical Christianity, are we not encouraged to study on our own and think for ourselves?

Frankly, any time a person insists upon using mischaracterizations to advocate positions, I simply assume that the truth is not on his side, and that he recognizes this and is acting on it. Please clarify this impression, because as a Christian, I anticipate that you intend better.

I will now re-exit this thread.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Darron Steele: I am bothered by the repeated "Calvinist" accusations. Any "telling one that they are espousing Calvinism" if directed at me would be understood as calling me a Calvinist.

HP: I would be happy to address this issue with you, but if you have decided to exit the thread, it serves no purpose to discuss it further. Let me know if you are just casting stones into the pond or if you desire discussion.

 

[Darron Steele]

HP: I would be happy to address this issue with you, but if you have decided to exit the thread, it serves no purpose to discuss it further. Let me know if you are just casting stones into the pond or if you desire discussion.

I posted earlier on the topic of this thread, but it went off on a discussion on different types of salvation, which is something I do not know anything about: I believe the Bible teaches only one salvation. I decided I could not contribute to the conversation, and up to today, have only watched.

Heavenly Pilgrim: I was simply bothered by your insistence that another poster was a Calvinist despite that person's corrections to you. I was also bothered by your justification and intended use of that repeated mischaracterization, and was hoping that I had misunderstood you.

I posted recently because I hated to see someone treated like that. Evidently, rather than provide an explanation of doing any different than I understood, you impugned me also.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Darron Steele: you impugned me also.

HP: How so?

 

[Darron Steele]

Your answer:

HP: I would be happy to address this issue with you, but if you have decided to exit the thread, it serves no purpose to discuss it further. Let me know if you are just casting stones into the pond or if you desire discussion.

 

[Inquiring Mind]

If faith alone is all we need, then why does Paul put love above faith?

if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

1 Cor 13:2

Faith that moves mountains? That's some powerful faith, but if you don't have love, you are nothing!!!

So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love

1 Cor. 13:13

If faith alone is all we need, why does Paul again say that love is greater than faith?