What is sin nature?

[webdog]

Where does the Bible say that our spirit becomes one with the Holy Spirit?

2 Timothy 4:22 states the Lord is "with" our spirit, and 1 Corinthians 6:17 states...

17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

 

[Palatka51]

Palatka51, that's a prayer for unity among believers.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Spirit aids in such, but it's not the same thing as saying that our inner spirit and the Holy Spirit become one and the same thing.

That I know and is the reason I asked instead of suggesting. :thumbs:

 

[Palatka51]

2 Timothy 4:22 states the Lord is "with" our spirit, and 1 Corinthians 6:17 states...

17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

1 Corinthians 6:12-20
12All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

Does seem to be in context to a dual nature. And a war with the flesh. Then verse 20 is an exhortation to glorify God in the body and in spirit.

 

[TCGreek]

2 Timothy 4:22 states the Lord is "with" our spirit, and 1 Corinthians 6:17 states...

17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

These texts do not answer the question you raised about our spirit becoming one with the Holy Spirit and that we have two natures.

 

[trustitl]

The Spirit of Holiness has taken up residence in our contaminated body.

Notice that the conflict is between our flesh and the Holy Spirit.

You are right that we do not have two nature and the conflict is between the flesh and the Spirit.

What do you mean by a contaminated body?

 

[TCGreek]

You are right that we do not have two nature and the conflict is between the flesh and the Spirit.

What do you mean by a contaminated body?

Simply the flesh and its impact.

 

[webdog]

These texts do not answer the question you raised about our spirit becoming one with the Holy Spirit and that we have two natures.

How does it not?

If we only had a sin nature...we would (and could) only sin. Nature, by definition, is...

the essential character of a thing; quality or qualities that make something what it is; essence

Scripture also tells us to put off the "old man" and put on the "new man". Clearly two natures.

 

[TCGreek]

How does it not?

If we only had a sin nature...we would (and could) only sin. Nature, by definition, is...

Scripture also tells us to put off the "old man" and put on the "new man". Clearly two natures.

Well, here's what the whole thing looks like:

"Do you not know that anyone joined to a prostitute is one body with her? For it says, The two will become one flesh. But anyone joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him."

We understand that a person doesn't literally become one with a prostitute but only unites or joins in agreement, in the same way, when we joined to the Lord, we are in agreement.

Here's how Paul puts it:

"The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God's children" (Rom 8:15).

Notice that the Spirit is still the Spirit and our spirit is still our spirit, but the Holy Spirit himself testifies together with our spirit.

They are still distinct, the Holy Spirit and our spirit.

I could be wrong, but that is how I see it for now.

 

[webdog]

We understand that a person doesn't literally become one with a prostitute but only unites or joins in agreement, in the same way, when we joined to the Lord, we are in agreement.

Here we disagree. When you are with a prostitute you do become...um...how can I say this...um...anatomically "one" physically as well as in agreement to what is conspiring. The two becoming one is literal, too.

 

[TCGreek]

Here we disagree. When you are with a prostitute you do become...um...how can I say this...um...anatomically "one" physically as well as in agreement to what is conspiring. The two becoming one is literal, too.

To some extent, but how physically one?

 

[webdog]

To some extent, but how physically one?

Their bodies become connected from the inside out.

 

[TCGreek]

Their bodies become connected from the inside out.

In that way, I totally agree, but not literally one, so that one individual ceases to exist.

 

[webdog]

I think that is the point of that text...the "becoming one" similie between the physical and spiritual (in Christ).

 

[TCGreek]

I think that is the point of that text...the "becoming one" similie between the physical and spiritual (in Christ).

I kinda see what you're saying, but our spirit still remains separate according to Paul in Romans 8:15.

There's is a sense of "becoming one," yes, but only in agreement.

 

[DHK]

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
--I believe that Paul teaches that we have a sin nature, and in this chapter (Romans 7), Paul describes the battle that he has between the sin nature and the Spirit.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
--Definite sin nature. Can't be describing the work of the Spirit of God.

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
--This is the struggle that we all have: the struggle between the sin nature and that new nature the comes from Christ.

Near the end of the chapter Paul cries out in despair:
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

And then in victory, he answers:
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We do have two natures: one of the flesh (our sin nature), and one that has been renewed of God.

 

[TCGreek]

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
--I believe that Paul teaches that we have a sin nature, and in this chapter (Romans 7), Paul describes the battle that he has between the sin nature and the Spirit.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
--Definite sin nature. Can't be describing the work of the Spirit of God.

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
--This is the struggle that we all have: the struggle between the sin nature and that new nature the comes from Christ.

Near the end of the chapter Paul cries out in despair:
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

And then in victory, he answers:
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We do have two natures: one of the flesh (our sin nature), and one that has been renewed of God.

Paul himself says,

"For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin" (6:6).

What then was crucified with Christ? How can we have two natures if something was crucified with Christ?

 

[trustitl]

Scripture also tells us to put off the "old man" and put on the "new man". Clearly two natures.

Thankfully you are absolutely wrong.
Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col. 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds

Eph. 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts

This is the only one that could be considered that putting off the old man is something we need to keep doing. However, being in the aortist infinitive, it is clearly not an ongoing process that the present infinitive would indicate. Neither is it in the aortist imperitive which would show it is something that still needs to be accomplished.

II Cor. 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[DHK]

Paul himself says,

"For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin" (6:6).

What then was crucified with Christ? How can we have two natures if something was crucified with Christ?

Is your old self crucified with Christ? Not necessarily. That was Paul's testimony. It is not the testimony of all believers.
Not all believers are crucified with Him.
That is something that you must do; it is difficult; it must be done on a daily basis; and it is a life of denial and complete submission to Christ. In fact, speaking of the crucified life, Paul said in 1Cor.15:31:

I die daily.

Not many of our worldly affluent Christians can say that.

 

[TCGreek]

Is your old self crucified with Christ? Not necessarily. That was Paul's testimony. It is not the testimony of all believers.
Not all believers are crucified with Him.

Yet Paul says,

"knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin."

"Our old self was crucified with Him" is true of all Christians who have been united with Christ through faith.

That is something that you must do; it is difficult; it must be done on a daily basis; and it is a life of denial and complete submission to Christ. In fact, speaking of the crucified life, Paul said in 1Cor.15:31:

I die daily.

Now I can see 1 Cor 15:31 as a testimony but not Rom 6:6.

Not many of our worldly affluent Christians can say that.

True.

 

[Joe]

Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."