What is sin?

[Frenchy]

Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8). This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-Calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.

This i believe to be true

It is called a mystery, a Paradox one which MAN will never figure out or understand, no matter how hard they try. so why bother?

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Helen:
Jesus said "temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come". Why, if temptations are inevitable, would the one through whom they come be in trouble?

Because WHO they will come through has not been predestined.

But the sins are predestined. They will occur. So now you say that something can be predestined and still be wrong? Good. That's progress.

You do have choices.

I have been saying that all along.

You are in control over your actions.

Yes, I know. That is why I can be and will be held accountable for them. God has allowed me that control. His sovereignty is big enough for that.

So we agree on this. So please stop acting like we don't agree.

You can move to a non-polluted town or you can stay and breathe the pollution.

Ain't it nice to be rich enough to have that choice? Some of us have had that option in our lives, and some haven't.

Some choices aren't easy, but they are still choices.

You can stop at red lights or you can run them.

My example was regarding me being a passenger in the car that ran the red light. I had no choice there. My question was regarding whether I should be punished for being in the car whose driver ran the red light.

Is being a passenger in a car whose driver runs a red light a sin? I'm not sure what 'blame' has to do with anything here.

The Bible divides predestination from cause, and you should too.

I do. Because the predestination passages are all regarding the future of those who believe and the process by which that will be achieved. They are never about God choosing WHO will believe from eternity past.

No you don't. "If God predestines me to sin, that is causing me to sin, for I have no other option." Those are your words. God predestined Christ's death at the hands of those who killed Him, but God did not cause them to kill Him.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Helen:
Example: A doctor gives a nurse a syringe and asks her to inject Sam, in room 104, as he has another urgent call. She does. It is a poison and Sam dies. Who is responsible?

Better example: A doctor sees a nurse with a syringe full of poison. He sees her walking toward a patient who is waiting for an injection. He has the authority to stop her, and he is strong enough to stop her, and yet he makes no movement at all. He simply watches her inject the patient, who dies from the injection. Is he responsible for the patient's death?

 

[webdog]

God is ultimately responsible for sin existing. God is ultimately responsible for someone being tempted. God sometimes uses lies to accomplish His will.

I thought calvinism wasn't "hyper", yet all conclusions lead down that road

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> God is ultimately responsible for sin existing. God is ultimately responsible for someone being tempted. God sometimes uses lies to accomplish His will.

I thought calvinism wasn't "hyper", yet all conclusions lead down that road

</font>[/QUOTE]You didn't quote all of what I said. Nevertheless, I can provide scripture references that prove the above. Are you going to argue with God now?

 

[webdog]

I'm arguing with you, not God. You cannot provied Scipture stating God is the author of sin. This is heresy.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by webdog:
I'm arguing with you, not God. You cannot provied Scipture stating God is the author of sin. This is heresy.

Okay, first you need to quote me as saying God is the author of sin, and then I'll provide the scriptural support for it.

Watch your accusations - someone may actually expect you to provide evidence for them.

 

[Helen]

It's a logical thing...if God determines each and every action of a man, then God is the author of rebellion against Himself and therefore the author of sin.

Calvinism is nonsense!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

amen, Helen.

 

[SuperBaptist]

144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel to be exact for those that take the Bible literally.

"A" list party no doubt.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Those 144,000 are sealed after the rapture of the saints to go through the tribulations that are to come upon the earth.

 

[Frenchy]

Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8). This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-Calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.

This i believe to be true
It is called a mystery, a Paradox one which MAN will never figure out or understand, no matter how hard they try. so why bother?

 

[EdSutton]

I guess I'm a little slow on the uptake, sometimes. At least, there often seems to be a line waiting to tell me that

(and most without my even asking for their opinion on the subject, no less) , but help me out, anyway, please. Exactly how is it again, you magically get from "a biblical definition of exactly what sin is" to "who are those 144,000"? And in only two pages??
In His grace,
Ed

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Helen:
It's a logical thing...if God determines each and every action of a man, then God is the author of rebellion against Himself and therefore the author of sin.

Calvinism is nonsense!

No it's not. You are still confusing determinism with cause. Your inability to properly categorize these things does not disprove Calvinism.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by whatever:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Helen:
It's a logical thing...if God determines each and every action of a man, then God is the author of rebellion against Himself and therefore the author of sin.

Calvinism is nonsense!

No it's not. You are still confusing determinism with cause. Your inability to properly categorize these things does not disprove Calvinism. </font>[/QUOTE]How can you package "properly categorize things" in a "Sovereign will" box???

I think you'd have more luck given "JUMBO" a ride in a little red "Radio-flyer wagon".