What is the Bible?

The Bible Is What You Use To GO SOUL WINNING WITH !! KNOW LETS GO!!

 

I am not an inerrantist, but I am a Christian. Maybe non-christians who read my posts (or Joshua's or post-its or russell honeycutt's) will see that you don't have to believe the entire bible is literally true to follow Jesus and belive the good news. I'm really not sure about the literal truth of the bible pre-Abraham, and some of it after that is a little suspect. But I don't think that that my eternal security rests
on my interpretation of Jonah. The real question is "Who do I say Jesus is?". Everything else, in my opinion, is small stuff.

 

Amen Brother, I was a 100% Baptist conservative, by the book, Christian for about 15 years until life, reality, and logic struck me between the eyes. I now see more Gray than Black. But truth none the less.

I now demand more from scripture before I plant my feet. As a concervative, I kept getting knocked down, the more rigid you are, the easier it is to fall down. I studied Logic and critical thinking for about a year. After that everything changed.

I then saw the Bible as the Living word of God not the unchanging Catholic turned Protestant Icon it has become for many people. I had to discard many of my old beliefs and start all over again, blocking out what man says and just letting God speak to me through the scripture with as little preconcieved notions as I could keep out. I still fight them off since I went to church since I was born they are ingrained deeply. It is amazing how much garbage we pick up that isn't Biblical.

The Bible makes perfect sense and is in perfect harmony with the errors that it contains. I can only believe in the Bible if these errors are in fact, errors. That may be hard for some to understand but I bet David and Joshua know what I'm talking about.

 

Quote by Post-it
"Amen Brother, I was a 100% Baptist conservative, by the book, Christian for about 15 years until life, reality, and logic struck me between the eyes. I now see more Gray than Black. But truth none the less."

Life reality and logic?
So,it wasn't the Holy Spirit?

 

Rapist, killers, child molestors/ex-priests, who turn christian should not be allowed in Family Churches even after they have come out of prison. They need to form their own church and go there. But we are never to say that these people aren't Christians after they confess Jesus, we just shouldn't be stupid and open our doors to them. God can love them in their own church.

</font>[/QUOTE]Wow, that's pretty cold. Sorry, but if someone repents and there goes their habitual behaviour and lifestyle and they have changed we should not deny them fellowship. Yet we allow habitual decievers, liars, gossips, gluttons, thieves (oh, sorry...those are "little" sins) who once they are confronted with truth continue with half-hearted repentance. This is the cancer that is destroying the church...or maybe the church just isn't forthright enough with what Christ's Lordship is about.
I think we allow "little sins" to continue because of the deception that these do no harm and are benign.
And please don't read into this or twist this. I understand grace and mercy. The fact is that sin is sin and needs to called so.

suzanne

[ August 25, 2002, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: suzanne ]

 

I have been amazed at the range of beliefs within the Baptist denomination. I suppose every denomination has it's liberals and conservatives. I just didn't realize how huge the gap was.

This thread bothers me though, because I'm always concerned about doctrine and beliefs becoming a stumbling block to those who are new the faith or not mature enough to decern error from truth and I keep my mouth shut for the most part because I don't always agree with the ultra-conservatives view of the Bible. (I'm not sola scriptura). But my question is, how do we discuss the Bible, it's history and how it came into being and still maintain, edify and encourage a new Christian is their walk with the Lord. I don't think we need to walk on eggshells but at the same time there needs to be a balance.

(sigh)....just me rambling

suzanne

 

Suzanne,

Many consider it the genius of Baptist polity that so many differing view are found within its borders. It is perhaps its greatest strength. Of course, it is also in many ways its greatesst weakness.

As to your question, the answer for me is, you don't, necessarily. If you want to edify a new Christian then helkp them find God's answers to THEIR questions. How we got the Bible is not likely to be one of them.

 

All denominations seem to have their left and right. My opinion has been changed that the Baptists are generally a more conservative group.

How we got the Bible is going to come up when a topic like this is raised. So new Christians have to dig through a lot of "stuff". Those who take the Bible literally, those who see gray areas, those who don't take the Bible literally. So I guess the best bet is to pray that those reading will hear what they need to hear.

Blessings,
suzanne

 

Well, I guess I am the opposite of post-it because I went from very liberal(also believed in Evolution), to a conservative Baptist. The more I read on these threads, the more I see the bible as God's Word from beginning to end and the writters of the SCROLLS, being inspired by God. To that end, the scrolls are to me perfect(as God wanted them). I do say that TRANSLATIONS are by MAN and do contain some errors in ALL translations with the KJV as having the most as it was translated before all the newer evidence has been found, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. But even with human error, ALL bibles that we now have, give God's Word as complete as needed for us to use. As I said, I used to "pick and choose" what I(BIG I), thought was fact and what was fiction. Now at age 65 I have to accept all as the scriptures say.......like a baby! They said this for a reason: So we wouldn't pick and choose based on our sinful, human logic. If the Word says it is RED, then it is RED! It is a lot better to be SAFE than sorry as we may not find out our ligic was SORRY until we face God on judgement day. I am in no way totally right because I am a sinner and to believe you know it all, is to be foolish.

God Bless...........Alex

 

DOUBLE

[ August 26, 2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]

 

Well, I guess I am the opposite of post-it because I went from very liberal(also believed in Evolution), to a conservative Baptist. The more I read on these threads, the more I see the bible as God's Word from beginning to end and the writters of the SCROLLS, being inspired by God. To that end, the scrolls are to me perfect(as God wanted them). I do say that TRANSLATIONS are by MAN and do contain some errors in ALL translations with the KJV as having the most as it was translated before all the newer evidence has been found, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. But even with human error, ALL bibles that we now have, give God's Word as complete as needed for us to use. As I said, I used to "pick and choose" what I(BIG I), thought was fact and what was fiction. Now at age 65 I have to accept all as the scriptures say.......like a child! They said this for a reason: So we wouldn't pick and choose based on our sinful, human logic. If the Word says it is RED, then it is RED! It is a lot better to be SAFE than sorry as we may not find out our ligic was SORRY until we face God on judgement day. I am in no way totally right because I am a sinner and to believe you know it all, is to be foolish.

God Bless...........Alex

 

David and Joshua, I am speaking as a conservative SBCer. Without a doubt, you represent the views of a lot of MAINSTREAM Baptists and others, as you define them. But sometimes it is difficult to discuss with you because when you start the conversation, YOU set it up as you are the urban (urbane), educated, studious, etc. ones. Joshua set it up this way in his post that started this thread. Some people insult you guys directly, and they are wrong in their approach. But it is easy for me to get the idea that you are insulting me by association.
I spent a long time in school at three secular colleges, and I will pit my education against yours, although I am not as articulate. Even if I had not been to school at all, though, so what?
At best, school helps you learn how to learn, and many do fine without it.

I believe in inerrancy of the original autographs, although I do not believe in mechanical dictation. The result, though, was exactly what God wanted, and we have reliable manuscripts. God chose for us to study instead of dropping the Bible from the sky on golden plates.
I completely realize that many people whose works I read and appreciate greatly did or do not share my view of inspiration. C.S. Lewis was probably closer to your view than mine. Peter Kreeft more relies on the authority of the church as a whole to interpret Scripture than a belief in inerrancy.

One of my favorite "mainstream" scholars on the canon of Scripture is F.F. Bruce. He wrote The Canon of Scripture, 1988, Intervarsity Press, among many others. He trained in classics at the University of Aberdeen and at Cambridge. He taught at Edinburgh, Leeds, Sheffield, and for many years at the University of Manchester.
If you have not read any of his works, I would suggest that they would give you needed balance in understanding the views of many who do not share yours.

Karen

 

Karen,
I will be brief b/c I'm going to court. I do not mean to come across like Joshua and I are these urbane sophisticates and everybody else is a hick (I lived on a Cattle farm until last year myself). Part of the reason that I included the bit about Joshua's view being held by the majority of Christian scholars is that he is essentially the Baptist Board whipping boy, and is often treated very poorly here-folks are often condescending toward his view, or treat him hatefully like he's some sort of heretic (he's even been called-without a hint of shame by the slanderer-the son of Satan). I wanted to "put on the record" for others who follow this site but don't necessarily post here that he is more representative of Chrsitian scholarship, even though he is in the minority here.
There are some well-educated folks here on the board who are conservative. Many know the prevailing "wisdom" or theories about the bible. And they simply reject the view. Which is fine because nobody here has walked around God and taken pictures, nobody has all the right answers. I just wanted folks to realize that even though some of us are in the minority here, we aren't crack-pots.

 

David,
Thanks very much for clarifying.

Karen