What is the difference between the classic Fundamentalist and the Modern day

[Paul33]

Squire,

Thanks.

My home church came out of the American Baptists (Northern Baptists) and is now independent and in the NBBC orbit.

Forgive my ignorance. What is the historical background/connections of the Independent Fundamental Baptists?

What schools do they recommend for ministry training?

I look forward to your response.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

The Fundamental Baptist Fellowship is a lineal descendent of the Fundamentalist Fellowship of Northern Baptists. The FFNB was organized in 1920 to resist the Liberalism and Modernism in the NBC.

Please see FBFI History Page for more details.

This is that pages description

a loose fellowship of individual like-minded Baptists.

The operative words are loose and individual like-minded Baptists, not churches. As I believe Richard V. Clearwaters (President of the then CBF from 1948 through 1951) said,

We are bound together by a rope of sand.

 

[John of Japan]

As I'm sure you know, Squire, my mission board is also in that direct lineage of the FBFI. Some of the grand old men of the group started it in 1962, I believe it was: Monroe Parker, Ed Nelson (who helped get me together with my wife), Clearwaters, Myron Cederholm, etc. Godly men and great Fundamentalists all.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Please note. In 1920, the Northern Baptist Convention was only six years old. So, the men who organized the FFNB had spent most of the ministerial lives without a convention.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Originally posted by John of Japan:As I'm sure you know, Squire, my mission board is also in that direct lineage of the FBFI. Some of the grand old men of the group started it in 1962, I believe it was: Monroe Parker, Ed Nelson (who helped get me together with my wife), Clearwaters, Myron Cederholm, etc. Godly men and great Fundamentalists all.

And more importantly for the purpose of this particular discussion, they were/are Baptists to the marrow of their bones. That part of his character, no doubt, has gotten Pastor Nelson in trouble on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by Squire Robertsson:
And more importantly for the purpose of this particular discussion, they were/are Baptists to the marrow of their bones. That part of his character, no doubt, has gotten Pastor Nelson in trouble on both sides of the Atlantic.

You are no doubt right--God bless him!

I heard the head of our board once say that Baptists are the natural inheritors of Fundamentalism since we believe in the "Bible as the sole rule of faith and practice" as a distinctive.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I prefer to think of the situation this way. The rest of the brethren are beginning to see we were right all along. Yes, I know that's ethnocentric of me. At least, I recognize that short coming in myself.

Oh yes, what school would I recommend? Before the usual Eastern suspects, I recommend International Baptist College and Graduate School in Tempe, Az. It's an extraordinary work. IBC is both accredited and a local church (Tri-City Baptist) ministry.

 

[robycop3]

What? No mention of W.B.Riley?

To me, a REAL Fundamentalist is a Bible-believer who accepts no man-made doctrine not found in Scripture. Thus, I believe in the Holy Trinity because Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are all called GOD in Scripture. I believe each is a distinct Personage, as Scripture so states. OTOH, I reject KJVO because it's not even HINTED AT in Scripture.

A real Fundamentalist neither invents nor follows any man-made rules of worship or Christian living such as no pants for women, etc.

A real Fundamentalist witnesses to all, great or small, regardless of national origin, race, creed, or culture.

A real Fundamentalist lets his/her lifestyle reflect his/her beliefs, teaching by example, never reying to force his/her beliefs down someone else's throat. The real Fundamentalist knows that FORCING Christianity upon someone does NOT make that person a true Christian.

In summary, a REAL Fundamentalist believes in Christ as Lord and savior by FAITH, a believing in the things unseen by the evidence of that which IS seen. He/she accepts ONLY those doctrines of worship found in SCRIPTURE.

I am a Fundamentalist in this manner, which, I believe, hearkens back to EARLY Fundamentalism.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Squire Robertsson:

Please see FBFI History Page for more details.

I noticed a lot of men with Dr. in front of their names. I assume they have Ph.D.'s. Where did they go to school?

 

[Paul33]

robycop,

I'm with you! That's what I think a real fundamentalists is too. That's why I believe the vast majority of those tagged with the New Evangelical label are really fundamentalists of the 1920s stripe. PTL.

 

[Paul33]

Squire,

I attended Vaughn's church when I attended BJU.

Fundamental Baptist Fellowship I knew about and understand. I didn't know what was meant by IBF.

Is there such a thing as IBF? Or is this term synonymous with FBFI?

 

[Paul33]

Squire,

You said Chuck Swindoll wouldn't be invited because he isn't a Baptist.

I noticed, however, that a State Representative for the FBFI pastors a non-baptist church:

Pastor Dale W. Cunningham
Boone's Creek Bible Church
Johnson City TN
How is this possible? Since membership is by individuals, is the answer he is a Baptist pastoring a Bible church?

If that is the case, can someone else claim to be a Baptist even though they pastor a IFCA church or an EFCA church?
Edited for privacy reasons. KR

[ December 09, 2005, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]

 

[Paul33]

Squire,

You said Chuck Swindoll wouldn't be invited because he isn't a Baptist.

I noticed, however, that a State Representative for the FBFI pastors a non-baptist church:

Pastor Dale W. Cunningham
Boone's Creek Bible Church
Johnson City TN 37615

Dr. Kenneth E. Burkett
Greenville Bible Church
Greenville MS 38704
There are several others.

How is this possible? Since membership is by individuals, is the answer he is a Baptist pastoring a Bible church?

If that is the case, can someone else claim to be a Baptist even though they pastor anIFCA church or an EFCA church?

Or perhaps FBFI should stand for Fundamental Bible Fellowship? Bible being "generic." Then you could invited fundamentalists from every denomination to join, not just Baptist and Bible!

Edited for privacy reasons. KR

[ December 09, 2005, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Originally posted by Paul33:
Squire,
SNIP
Fundamental Baptist Fellowship I knew about and understand. I didn't know what was meant by IBF.

Is there such a thing as IBF? Or is this term synonymous with FBFI?

Do you mean Independent Baptist Fellowship? If so, I've never heard of such an organization. So no, FBFI is not synomymous with IBF. I've heard of Independent Fundamental Baptist. But IFB covers alot of men, movements and organizations, not just the FBFI.

 

[Paul33]

Thanks Squire,

I meant IFB.

I was under the impression that IFB stood for a fellowship of churches.

But you spoke of FBFI. Is FBFI under the umbrella of the generic term IFB, or does IFB stand for something specific?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Originally posted by Paul33:
Thanks Squire,

I meant IFB.

I was under the impression that IFB stood for a fellowship of churches.

But you spoke of FBFI. Is FBFI under the umbrella of the generic term IFB, or does IFB stand for something specific?

AFAIK, IFB is a generic name which covers a lot of folk. To the best of my knowledge it is used to lump together every one who isn't a part of the SBC, ABC, or CBA. And I don't know if our Primitive Baptist Brethren would care to be covered by it.

As for your question about the Bible Church pastors, I am out West and little to no contact with what's going on back East. I can only guess the men you cited are not pastoring IFCA or EFCA churches. Now remember I said I was guessing. So, I apologize in advance if I guessed wrong.

 

[Paul33]

Right. I would assume they are pastoring independent Bible churches.

But then, every EFCA and IFCA church is independent in the sense that they are totally autonomous but have chosen to fellowship with like-minded believers.

That being the case, how is their fellowship different from FBFI.

When does a "Fellowship" become a denomination? And why is the FBFI acceptable for Baptists to join but not the IFCA or the EFCA?

If all three represent historic fundamental doctrine (and they do), then fellowship in one should not exclude fellowship in the other. None of these groups condones false doctrine and none allow liberals and apostates to join!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I told you I was only guessing. Therefor, I have no definitive answer to your question. My only comment is the FBF probably pre-dates the other organizations. And I never said anything about what is or isn't acceptable. Again I will hazard another opinion. Is the IFCA or EFCA felowships of churches or fellowships of individuals? In the grand Northern Baptist tradition (and I can quote Wayland, c 1856, if you want me to), the FBF is the latter.

 

[Paul33]

Squire,

I didn't mean to imply that you did. But in light of this thread, I'm trying to get at what the differences are between classic fundamentalists (1920s) and modern fundamentalists (2000s).

You and I both know that certain relationships are acceptable in modern fundamentalism, and others aren't (by the standards of the group, which fundamentalists keep denying that they have, sigh).

Therefore, I open this question up to all self-identified modern fundamentalists to answer. Why is it acceptable to join the FBFI, but not the IFCA or the EFCA? Baptists should be free to join either, remain Baptist, and serve the Lord.

It seems to me that fundamental Baptists are hung up on several things, one of which is the name Baptist!

I wonder what Jesus would say about that?

 

[Paul33]

Originally posted by Squire Robertsson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Paul33:
So fellowship with IFBers is dependent on being a Baptist?

The short answer is yes. This is an organization of Fundamental Baptists not Baptist Fundamentalists. There is a strong historic thread of non-interdenominationalism among the Baptists.

Originally posted by Paul33:
A non-baptist who is completely baptistic in doctrine would be excluded as a guest speaker?

We have capable men of our own. Enough of them, such that we are unable to give many the opportunity to speak. A non-baptist would have to make a fairly strong case for being heard. Remember now these gatherings have at best seven hours of formal meetings. So, who do we cut form the program.

Originally posted by Paul33:
He keeps company with others who believe in the historic doctrines of the faith!

Irrelevant, to my position.

Mind you, all of this is not to down grade Pastor Swindoll's ministry. His books are on many a preacher's shelf and have been used to build up the brethren. </font>[/QUOTE]If this is a fellowship of Baptists, why are State Representatives of the FBFI pastors of Bible churches? Bible churches have a fellowship called the IFCA.

Therefore, one can pastor a Bible church, but as an individual "Baptist" join the FBFI?

Right?