Originally posted by Pastor Bob 63:
Please do not imply that my standing before Christ is dependant upon my command of the ancient languages. And, please do not imply that the people that God has given me the honor of pastoring are getting short-changed because I cannot read Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. Might I remind you that the Pharisees all had a good grasp of the languages just like you do, and they didn't do too well when Christ confronted them.
I have never said or implied that your command of the English language is something that at the Bema Seat where Jesus will judge you. My meaning is this: digging a hole in the sand and coating your 'ignorance' as being something wholesome is a loathsome attitude in serving Christ and His church, which you have been given to shepherd over. You should do all that you do for Christ, and not to make excuses in life because you think that you aren't "smart" enough! Taking pride in being 'dumb' is not something that God is going to give you a reward for! The knowledge of Hebrew and Greek is a great tool to have in your arsenal against the Devil, the flesh, and it is more important for you *personally* so that you can use your knowledge of the original languages and preach the Word with greater understanding (obviously, God will always honor His Word, regardless of the personal knowledge/education of the preacher). Now, I am not a preacher, nor do I have the desire to preach (as taught in 1 Timothy 3:1 and following), but my time in college and seminary was well worth the effort even if I am not using them for the purpose of pastoring a church.
I have seen too many times where in KJV-only churches that preachers and 'preacher-boys' would be encouraged *not* to study the Word, especially in the arena of gaining knowledge about the original Biblical languages. This only stunts the growth of men who will eventually be pastoring churches! I sure don't want to stand before Christ and have Him, the Perfect Judge, say that I lost my reward because I encouraged someone to not do all his best for God!
I may be just a country preacher from the wheat fields of Kansas, but I am where God called me, doing what he's called me to do, and I am doing it with what He's equppied me with. I am always seeking to learn more and improve in areas that I am lacking. I have yet to knock on one door out here where the occupant spoke Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic. Everyone that I have led to the Lord has been through explaining the Gospel in English. That's why I use an English Bible.
Again, here is another example where you have misapplied my meaning and intentions. You don't use the knowledge of Greek and Hebrew to speak to people who use those languages (Koine' Greek is the Greek of the NT, and anyone living in Greece would not understand you if you spoke to them in NT Greek! I personally found that knowledge of Hebrew allowed me to converse with Israelis while I was in Israel-- and I could read the road signs, too!). As a matter of fact, you are not taught on how to speak these languages, but rather on how to read them-- by reading them you read God's Word in the original languages that He chose, by His perfect providence.
It is good that you are improving in your areas that you lack-- and I as well. We must do *excellent* service to Christ, not substandard. We live in an age where it is expected of us to be knowledgeable in the subjects we are using in our vocation. Again, Greek and Hebrew are tools of the trade, and it is important to know them so that you can see many more things in Scripture than you would have if you only relied on English alone! Don't bury your head in your hands if you don't think that you can handle learning the original languages-- I saw 60+ year old men in seminary who learned them better than I have!
If you'll allow this uneducated preacher to join in this scholarly discussion, I'd like to state my case.
God has promised to preserve His Word.
Psa. 78:1-8
Psa. 105:8
Psa. 119:111
Ecc. 3:14
The very character of God demands that I have a copy of His preserved Word. He tells me: "Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes." How can I do that unless I have His Word in a language that I can read and understand? Even if I could read Hebrew and Greek, wouldn't I translate it into English in my mind? Sure I would; and so do you. Why then is a preserved English translation so far fetched?
The belief that God can guide the hand of the translators does not in any way imply second inspiration. The KJV is a preserved translation of the inspired Word of God. If you willingly acknowledge that God could do that, why is it so hard to beliueve that He would do just that?
This is where I, and others, have taken this course of action. I chose to use the topic of the so-called 'doctrine' of the providential preservation of the text to show those, like yourself, that you cannot rely on your own understanding and not on the false writings of those who are beguiling you. I believe your intentions are good, but this is where the buck stops. Your verses that you quoted do not say anything about how/when/why/who/where God 'providentially preserved' his Word. If you would like to state your case in a 'scholarly' fashion, don't just make simple statements and simple quotes-- explain yourself!
Here's some good questions for you:
** Where in Scripture does it say that God preserves his text *into* another language, whether perfectly (verbally) or providentially (plenarily)?
** If the KJV is 'preserved' by your definition, then why not the modern versions even if they use the same Hebrew and Greek text the KJV uses (like the NKJV)?
** If you have conceded that Psalm 12 is not referring to providential preservation, then what about the other verses you have quoted? Do you still want to be proven wrong about these also? Where does that leave your so-called 'doctrine' of providential preservation as you have defined it?
I am using these as an example to show you that it is impossible for you to answer these questions honestly. God is quite precise in His detail about what He says-- especially in areas that involve good doctrine. I would suggest that you re-read previous articles written by myself, DocCas, and others who generally lean against the KJV-only position on the 'providential preservation of the Bible text'.
At one time in my life, while I was in college, I was also KJV-only just like yourself. I had only just begun to take Greek, and I was only making 'C' grades! Anyway, I had friends who pointed out my error on this subject, and I am thankful of their care and understanding toward me despite the fact that I was bitter against them for proving me wrong about being KJV-only. I only hope to pursuade you that what you believe is not only wrong, but if taken further, could lead you into other heresies and errors. Now, I am not calling you a heretic by any stretch of the imagination, but this error-- in that realm of beliefs that KJV-onlyists hold to-- is something that will keep you from being fully honest and probably has kept you out of fellowship of some believers who hold to the positions that I or DocCas hold to concerning KJV-onlyism. This issue is needlessly separating people and churches when it really should not be, if those who study the Word like the Bereans and refute false doctrine and teaching.
[ September 13, 2002, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: DocCas ]