What Is The Gospel, And How Does It Work?

[Van]

He that believeth on me hath everlasting life..why make it so complicated....

The deal is who decides whether or not a person "believeth on Me?" Scripture says God does, you claim your own assessment qualifies you a person who "believeth."
Nothing complicated about that. The question you should ask is why were you not taught this basic truth? And why did you not discern it from scripture (Romans 4)?

 

[TCassidy]

I am at a disadvantage in that I could not get the video sound to work.

Operator error? <snicker snicker>

 

[HankD]

Operator error? <snicker snicker>

Quite possibly! I've had a stroke and my fenders on my left hand don't work so well anymore.

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

Quite possibly! I've had a stroke and my fenders on my left hand don't work so well anymore.

HankD

I was having trouble with my blue tooth headset. It wasn't working with my lap top so I couldn't hear any of the narrative of the video I was trying to watch. I finally got frustrated and shouted "What is wrong with these stupid things?!?!?!?"

My wife walked over, hit the f6 button which turned the sound on, and walked away.

Harrruuummmph! Harruummmph I say! Harruuuummmmppphhh!

 

[HankD]

I was having trouble with my blue tooth headset. It wasn't working with my lap top so I couldn't hear any of the narrative of the video I was trying to watch. I finally got frustrated and shouted "What is wrong with these stupid things?!?!?!?"

My wife walked over, hit the f6 button which turned the sound on, and walked away.

Harrruuummmph! Harruummmph I say! Harruuuummmmppphhh!

OH!

Hmm...

HankD

 

[HankD]

Hmm,

seems OK now.
going back to listen (with earphones even).



HankD

 

[Van]

Something about these passages that you don't understand?:

......to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him: if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, Col 1:22,23

Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God`s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Ro 11:22

Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand, by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain. 1 Cor 15:1,2

but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end...... for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end: Heb 3:6,14

The salvation of the gospel is even dependent upon faithful shepherds continuing their duties:

Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16

Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:18

Lets start with the concept that there is something about these verses one of us does not understand.

The premise of the OSAS folks is that if you are born anew, your faith and devotion to Christ will be protected by the power of God and therefore, those that go out from us were never of us, never born anew because their faith was not protected. 1 Peter 1:3-5. So all these conditionals, if you continue, can be understood to mean if you were born anew, then you will continue.... Using this understanding then Romans 11:22, Colossians 1:22-23, and 1 Timothy 4:16 do not support loss of salvation, they support the idea that some think they have been saved because they proclaimed "Lord, Lord" but in reality they were not saved, but rather on that day Jesus will say depart from me, I never knew you. Note he will not say I knew you but then you escaped out of my hand.

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Paul says "...you are saved, if you hold fast the word...." So again perseverance proves salvation, but it does not provide salvation.

Similarly Hebrews 3:6 says we are of Christ's house if we hold fast. Ditto for Hebrews 3:16 we have become partakers of Christ if we hold fast...."

Not sure what your point was with Acts 20:28, which reads (NASB) "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." The requirement to feed, nurture, and help believers to grown and mature does not to my mind suggest loss of salvation of the under-shepherd or any of their flock. Again, those that go out from us were never of us.

 

[kyredneck]

By the preaching of the "sent".

There's actually nothing new in His design of 'giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater'.

 

[kyredneck]

The premise of the OSAS folks is that if you are born anew

The premise that 'saved' and the 'heavenly birth' are the same is flawed. I firmly believe ETERNAL security for the redeemed, heavenly born child of God, but I reject the notion of guaranteed temporal blessings for the disobedient. God can and will make His disobedient children's lives miserable in this material realm.

those that go out from us were never of us

One of the most abused/misused/misapplied passages in the Bible.

18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us. 1 Jn 2

It is asinine to place disobedient children in the category of 'antichrists'.

Using this understanding then Romans 11:22, Colossians 1:22-23, and 1 Timothy 4:16 do not support loss of salvation,

Oh, but they most certainly do support 'loss of salvation', but not in the eternal sense.

and 1 Timothy 4:16

Question for you; do you think Timothy was regenerate when Paul wrote this to him?

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Paul says "...you are saved, if you hold fast the word...." So again perseverance proves salvation, but it does not provide salvation.

Wrong. There is great deliverance and blessing in this time world in remaining faithful to Christ and His church.

Similarly Hebrews 3:6 says we are of Christ's house if we hold fast. Ditto for Hebrews 3:16 we have become partakers of Christ if we hold fast...."

Yet His children can fall away from it:

4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Heb 6

Not sure what your point was with Acts 20:28

See post #28. The preaching of the gospel saving [delivering] us while in this temporal realm is His design.

 

[Van]

Being saved means having been born anew. There is no difference. Same status and blessings apply.
They went out from us because they were never of us means those that depart were never saved, never born anew.

Anyone is not for Jesus is against Jesus, they are thus anti-Christs.

Those that fail to continue were never saved, never born anew, in the first place.

Yes, I see that I did not address one aspect of your argument from 1 Timothy 4:16. Here is the NASB rendering: 16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

The second set of misunderstood verses that seem to teach loss of salvation refer to loss of rewards. Once a person is born anew, a new creation created for good words, they earn rewards by their service to Christ. Thus the "loss of salvation" refers to the "loss of salvation's rewards" where we enter heaven "abundantly." If our ministry is lacking or misplaced, we still enter heaven, but as one escaping a fire. Thus for Timothy, a regenerate, born anew, saved person, the loss of salvation's rewards is in view.

Your view that those who pour out their lives for Christ will receive blessing in this world is dubious. I know a missionary, who as a youth (high school or college age) went to the mission field and was infected with malaria. As a result, the missionary has suffered greatly. Clinging to God means we do not inflict unnecessary suffering on ourselves or our loved ones as a result of godless behavior, but there is no guarantee we will not suffer in this life.

Yes, again, professing Christians can and do fall away, like the second and third soils of Matthew 13. But falling away proves they were never saved, never born anew, never regenerated.

Was your reference to Acts 20:18 or 20:28 really a reference to Luke 24:27 or 32?

 

[kyredneck]

What Is The Gospel, And How Does It Work?

http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/regeneration.99599/page-3#post-2253393