What is the largest Church in America?

[DHK]

DHK, lori4dos already said that she was saved when she was in a Baptist church.

So why would you think that she was keeping a RCC definition of the new birth?

She says that, and then adds "and was baptized," making the statement a bit ambiguous.
But then she says she believes the new birth = baptismal regeneration.
Is that not a repudiation of the former belief saying I really didn't believe what I said I believed as a Catholic. Face it, you can't believe both at the same time.

A. Is the color blue, blue.
B. Or is the color blue, red.
One statement is true, and the other false. You can't believe both.

If A. is true, then B. is false.
If B. is true, the A. is false.
Both A. and B. cannot both be true. And that is Lori's position. It is totally illogical, and she won't budge from it.

You said that only God knows her heart - which was the correct answer - but you continued questioning of her makes me think that you believe that she is not.

Then let her give a logical answer that makes sense.

So if she was saved as a Baptist did she lose her salvation when she left for the RCC?

Only she can tell you that. She knows what she believes, but is unwilling to come forth with the truth. Both A and B cannot be true at the same time.

She still says that she is saved - and you act as though she is not - so is she fooled in her assurance?

If she can be fooled - why can't you or I?

I am not deceived. My testimony is clear. It is in harmony with the Word of God. Hers is not. She needs to explain the contradictions.

 

[DHK]

Yes its considered an Augustinian view. However, the Orthodox hold to ancestrial sin rather than original sin in the way the west views it. Accordingly to them man is only predisposed to sin. Not necissarily contaminated by it unless its acted upon.

Yes, I have heard that view. There are a few people here that believe it.
I believe that it teaches the innate goodness of man, which the Bible does not teach.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Yes, I have heard that view. There are a few people here that believe it.
I believe that it teaches the innate goodness of man, which the Bible does not teach.

I personally believe that in the respect that we are made in the image of God we are good however I do believe we are contaminated by sin as in the Augustinian view. But that does not preclude us from behaving well or from "good motives". Or that there is that within our nature to desire good. however, I also believe the taint of sin constantly works in opossition twisting a the good aspects of ourselves into corruptness. So even while we want a good or are motivated by a good it becomes corrupt as sin participates in both activity and motivation.

The way I see evil is that its a parasite. It can't exist with out feeding and twisting upon good. Contrarily, Good can exist independent of evil.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I personally believe that in the respect that we are made in the image of God we are good however I do believe we are contaminated by sin as in the Augustinian view. But that does not preclude us from behaving well or from "good motives". Or that there is that within our nature to desire good. however, I also believe the taint of sin constantly works in opossition twisting a the good aspects of ourselves into corruptness. So even while we want a good or are motivated by a good it becomes corrupt as sin participates in both activity and motivation.

The way I see evil is that its a parasite. It can't exist with out feeding and twisting upon good. Contrarily, Good can exist independent of evil.

Could you then share how a man or woman may be just before a Holy God?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Could you then share how a man or woman may be just before a Holy God?

They can't save through Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That heavenly SAT exam is going to be a doosey! Because we know faith plus a 4.0 gpa in doctrine gets you into heaven... So before you die make sure you cram for the test!!!

Ohhhh Gads TS ..... Wipes Eyes (LOL)...... just remember, Christ came for the poor & the sinners....I heard nothing about the born again elite.:thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ignorance saves no one:


It is the SUFFICIENCY of Christ to have satisfied that NEED that is the real problem between Baptists and Catholics in regard to justification by faith. The Baptist gospel of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone is simply the message that Christ has provided a SUFFICIENT basis for justification before God. The RCC and other justification by works gospels DENY that Christ alone is Sufficient but that the sinner must ADD something to make justification SUFFICIENT.

Perhaps Catholics take Matthew 25 (Sheep & Goats) literally....IE that you must provide food to the hungry & drink to the thirsty, clothes to the naked, visitation to the sick. There are dire consequences for NOT helping the stranger. Matt 25: 41-46.

In NYC where I am from, Catholic charities feeds & clothes 2/3 of the hungry & homeless. Growing every day in this economy I can testify to.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Ohhhh Gads TS ..... Wipes Eyes (LOL)...... just remember, Christ came for the poor & the sinners....I heard nothing about the born again elite.:thumbs:

The one who mocks the elect of God has never tasted Christ.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Because Roman Catholicism IS biblical Christianity. We don't need your proselytizing, thank you.

I'm sorry, Lori but Catholicism is no more christian then the Mormons or the Jehovahs Witnesses.

A christion group would not....

1) Promote Goddess worship.

2) Promote Idol worship.

3) Preach a false gospel.

4) Believe that they literally EAT the Lord Jesus Christ.

5) And quietly move pedophile priests from parish to parish for DECADES if not CENTURIES in order to proect the reputation of the supposed "Holy Mother Church.

 

[annsni]

This is from both the catechism and Catholic.com:

"Extra ecclesiam, nulla salus does not mean that only faithful Roman Catholics can be saved. The Church has never taught that. So where does that leave non-Catholics?

Jesus told his followers, "I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd" (John 10:16). After his Resurrection, Jesus gave the threefold command to Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Tend my sheep. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:15–17). The word translated as "tend" (poimaine) means "to direct" or "to superintend"—in other words, "to govern." So although there are sheep that are not of Christ’s fold, it is through the Church that they are able to receive his salvation.

People who have never had an opportunity to hear of Christ and his Church—and those Christians whose minds have been closed to the truth of the Church by their conditioning—are not necessarily cut off from God’s mercy. Vatican II phrases the doctrine in these terms:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their consciences—those too may achieve eternal salvation (LG 16)."

So there is salvation outside the Gospel? Interesting.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The one who mocks the elect of God has never tasted Christ.

So RB, your an Elect Baptist....tell me, whats your belief concerning Christs atonement. Did Christ die for all or just the elect? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[ReformedBaptist]

So RB, your an Elect Baptist....tell me, whats your belief concerning Christs atonement. Did Christ die for all or just the elect? :smilewinkgrin:

I already answered that question in this thread, plus you have my statements of faith below. Read them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I already answered that question in this thread, plus you have my statements of faith below. Read them.

now I got to go thru the whole darn thread just to read your statement. Since you know where it is, why not just send it over as a quote.....of course that would be to easy for you obviously.

OK have it your way.... I will hunt it out:smilewinkgrin:

Note: These smiles dont have a big enough selection to translate all emotions.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is another thread in which there are those who believe Jesus or God only loves the elect and hates everyone else. That Jesus' death was limited only to the elect.

I personally disagree with this and think its a result of hyper Calvinism.

So by Reformed Baptists statement above you feel he is wrong & a hyper-calvinist?:laugh::thumbs: Note these smiles reflect proper emotions this time! LOL :godisgood:

PS: THANKS RB for forcing me to search!

 

[lori4dogs]

She says that, and then adds "and was baptized," making the statement a bit ambiguous.
But then she says she believes the new birth = baptismal regeneration.
Is that not a repudiation of the former belief saying I really didn't believe what I said I believed as a Catholic. Face it, you can't believe both at the same time.

A. Is the color blue, blue.
B. Or is the color blue, red.
One statement is true, and the other false. You can't believe both.

If A. is true, then B. is false.
If B. is true, the A. is false.
Both A. and B. cannot both be true. And that is Lori's position. It is totally illogical, and she won't budge from it.

Then let her give a logical answer that makes sense.

Only she can tell you that. She knows what she believes, but is unwilling to come forth with the truth. Both A and B cannot be true at the same time.

I am not deceived. My testimony is clear. It is in harmony with the Word of God. Hers is not. She needs to explain the contradictions.

DHK, I have clearly said that once I totally believed the Baptist postion on baptism (only a symbol) but now believe the Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Orthodox, etc. position is correct. You keep saying I believe both and I have never said that. You say that I can't possibly have believed what you call 'the truth' and now believe differently. You say, I must never have been truly saved to begin with or I would never have renounced what YOU call 'the truth'. I'm telling you I now recognize the real truth is not what the Baptist church believes about baptism but what the vast majority of Christians in this world believe.
Got it??

 

[DHK]

DHK, I have clearly said that once I totally believed the Baptist postion on baptism (only a symbol) but now believe the Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Orthodox, etc. position is correct. You keep saying I believe both and I have never said that. You say that I can't possibly have believed what you call 'the truth' and now believe differently. You say, I must never have been truly saved to begin with or I would never have renounced what YOU call 'the truth'. I'm telling you I now recognize the real truth is not what the Baptist church believes about baptism but what the vast majority of Christians in this world believe.
Got it??

Yes I got it.
You clearly believed the Baptist position. You assented to it. You believed it in your mind just as I believed what the RCC taught me when I was a Catholic. I assented to it. I believed it to be true.

But now I don't believe it to be true. I have rejected it. You have done the same thing. Correct. You do not believe the evangelical position on the new birth is the correct one. Is that right?

In order to accept the Catholic position you had to repudiate or reject the Baptist position. True enough? One cannot hold to two contradictory positions. So far so good?
Thus your first position was a mental assent. You believed it. But no further than that.

 

[targus]

Yes I got it.
You clearly believed the Baptist position. You assented to it. You believed it in your mind just as I believed what the RCC taught me when I was a Catholic. I assented to it. I believed it to be true.

But now I don't believe it to be true. I have rejected it. You have done the same thing. Correct. You do not believe the evangelical position on the new birth is the correct one. Is that right?

In order to accept the Catholic position you had to repudiate or reject the Baptist position. True enough? One cannot hold to two contradictory positions. So far so good?
Thus your first position was a mental assent. You believed it. But no further than that.

I thought that it is against the Baptist Board policy to question another's salvation - but that is what you continue to do with lori4dogs.

You yourself stated that you cannot know the state of another's salvation - that only God knows - but you continue to beat on her and beat on her in an effort to force her to question her own salvation.

This seems to be very wrong to me.

 

[targus]

DHK, let's turn the tables...

You say that you know that you are saved and that you are secure in your salvation.

How do you know that you will never turn in your beliefs in the future?

Exactly how do you know what your future is?

How do you know that you are not simply fooling yourself now and will change your mind in the future?

 

[DHK]

DHK, let's turn the tables...

You say that you know that you are saved and that you are secure in your salvation.

How do you know that you will never turn in your beliefs in the future?

Exactly how do you know what your future is?

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 John 5:12-13 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

How do you know that you are not simply fooling yourself now and will change your mind in the future?

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[targus]

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 John 5:12-13 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Well when lori4dogs was a Baptist she says that she was saved and that she believed on the name of the Son of God - so why are you questioning her salvation now?

Because she changed her beliefs and joined the RCC?

So she was wrong about being saved?

If so - how do you know that you are not also wrong about being saved and that you will not one day change your beliefs?

It happened to lori4dogs - so why can't it happen to you?