What is the objective test for being regenerate?

[Dr. Walter]

Actually, I think billwald's issue is with your opinion/interpretation of what God's Word actually means. That is my issue as well, and I suspect it is thus for a great many who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God.

WM

So, he is asking for my "subjective" opinion/interpretation rather than for "objective" evidence???? He has already rejected all subjective opinions/interpretations as far as I can tell so this is nothing but mental circular gymnastics.

He was not there at my conversion. He can't compare the before and after me because he does not know me. He cannot observe inside of me. He cannot get an audiance with God to confirm my salvation. Pious religious professors have the same holy exterior (Mt. 7:21-23) visible observations/evidences.

Let me ask both of you this question. How can you objectively tell whether the Apostle Paul was saved or merely deluded? You were not there to witness his before and after life. You have only God's Word concerning his change, his belief's, character, and his practices. What objective evidence do you have that Paul was a saved man? What objective evidence do you have that Jesus was even the Christ??? You were not there to witness his life, his character or anything about him any more than you have any "objective" evidence that I or anyone are saved! My answer is the same "objective" evidence that you have to prove either Paul is a saved man or Jesus is the Christ.

What objective evidence do you have to base your faith in Christ? Or that Christ is the Son of God? Have you visibly seen him? Were you there when He performed the miracles? Do you have any living eye witnesses that were?

 

[glfredrick]

1 Jn 4:13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

1 Jn 5:10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[glfredrick]

What objective evidence do you have to base your faith in Christ? Or that Christ is the Son of God? Have you visibly seen him? Were you there when He performed the miracles? Do you have any living eye witnesses that were?

2 Pet1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased”— 18and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

19So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

 

[WestminsterMan]

So, he is asking for my "subjective" opinion/interpretation rather than for "objective" evidence???? He has already rejected all subjective opinions/interpretations as far as I can tell so this is nothing but mental circular gymnastics.

He was not there at my conversion. He can't compare the before and after me because he does not know me. He cannot observe inside of me. He cannot get an audiance with God to confirm my salvation. Pious religious professors have the same holy exterior (Mt. 7:21-23) visible observations/evidences.

Let me ask both of you this question. How can you objectively tell whether the Apostle Paul was saved or merely deluded? You were not there to witness his before and after life. You have only God's Word concerning his change, his belief's, character, and his practices. What objective evidence do you have that Paul was a saved man? What objective evidence do you have that Jesus was even the Christ??? You were not there to witness his life, his character or anything about him any more than you have any "objective" evidence that I or anyone are saved! My answer is the same "objective" evidence that you have to prove either Paul is a saved man or Jesus is the Christ.

What objective evidence do you have to base your faith in Christ? Or that Christ is the Son of God? Have you visibly seen him? Were you there when He performed the miracles? Do you have any living eye witnesses that were?

There is no objective evidence that Paul was saved. Further, there is no objective evidence that God even exists. Believing in God absent said evidence is the essence of faith. What I take issue with is one trying to prove something "objectively" based on one's own feeble, fallible, and patently imperfect interpretation of scripture. It is pure folly.

WM

 

[Dr. Walter]

There is no objective evidence that Paul was saved. Further, there is no objective evidence that God even exists. Believing in God absent said evidence is the essence of faith. What I take issue with is one trying to prove something "objectively" based on one's own feeble, fallible, and patently imperfect interpretation of scripture. It is pure folly.

WM

Is there any objective evidence that we have the Word of God at all?

 

[billwald]

Probably not. Maybe it is the wrong question. If God cares about humans should there not be statistical evidence? Someone once said, "If this is how God treats his friends . . . ." NOT that I have any complaint!

 

[Dr. Walter]

Is there any objective evidence that we have the Word of God at all?

I beleive there is objective evidence that the Bible is God's Word:

1. Archeological evidence
2. Scientific evidence
3. Fulfilled prophecy
4. Changed lives

One of the greatest non-Christian Archeologists claimed that not one shred of evidence taken from thousands of digs has yet been proven to contradict one statement in the Scriptures.

There are scores of things revealed in the Scriptures that modern scientists have only confirmed in the past 100 years and only because of microscopes, telescopes or satelite imagery. In other words, modern science has been playing catch up to such revealed truths found in nature. For example, the number of stars. Modern secular science during the period when the Bible was being written claimed the stars could be numbered nd gave a number of the stars. For example, hygene practices when dealing with disease. For example, the water cycle. For example, ocean currents. For example wind circuits. For example, etc.

No other book ever written can even be compared to the scriptures in regard to fulfilled prophecy. The statistical probability that 8 specific detailed prophecies could be fulfilled in the life of one man is staggering and yet there are near 300 in regard to Christ and eight on one single day.

What natural explanation can one give for such a man as Saul of Tarsus who in the middle of a campaign to persecute and imprison Jews for following Jesus Christ, he becomes a follower - transforming not merely his own life but his whole theology.

The critic must EXPLAIN AWAY these things and any position that requires one to EXPLAIN AWAY what appears to be clear and obvious is a WEAKER position.