What is the one determining factor when an unbeliever comes to faith in Christ?

[webdog]

All have suppressed the truth for a lie and nobody will be saved....unless God intervenes in their lives.If you earn it, is it a gift? If God is responding to what man does in making the decision to elect them to salvation, then the man has earned it, imho.

Your boss responds to your exceptionally good work by giving you a bonus and a promotion. You respond by accepting his offer. Is it a gift or did you earn it?

Your boss, because of the kind intention of His heart and because of His purposes which only He knows, looks upon your horrible work, forgives you of your failures and offers you a bonus and a promotion. You know you didn't earn it. As a matter of fact, you know you deserve to be fired instead. You respond by accepting his offer. Is it a gift or did you earn it?

peace to youraying:

Your boss analogy is a red herring as there is no gift involved. Im surprised to hear you say that to pay for and present a gift to someone magically turns into a wage for work done simply by the recediver accepting a gift. Are you going to tell me that when your kids open presents on christmas they go from being gifts to wages based on their ability to accept them and your response?!
Praise God I do not believe such an illogical system!

 

[canadyjd]

You seem to equate defiled with unsaved, but the scripture says the "BECAME defiled," they were always unsaved.

I was responding to your statement that they were "defiled in their thinking". You attributed that quote to Romans 1. I'm having a hard time finding the phrase "became defiled" in Romans 1.

My version says (.v 21) they "became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened." Is that the verse you are speaking of?

Is there any biblical support for the view that they are born defiled rather than what the scripture actually says, which is that they became defiled only after their rebellion?

That gets into the area of original sin. I'd rather not chase that rabbit in this thread. OK?

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

...Im surprised to hear you say that to pay for and present a gift to someone magically turns into a wage for work done simply by the recediver accepting a gift.

I'm surprised you heard me say something that I clearly did not say.

Praise God I do not believe such an illogical system!

And now I remember why I stopped responding to your posts.

peace to youraying:

 

[webdog]

I'm surprised you heard me say something that I clearly did not say.And now I remember why I stopped responding to your posts.

peace to youraying:

Did you or did you not say if God is responding to mans decision man has earned it? Sure sounded like it to me. Completely illogical. I give you a gift, you then accept the gift, and since you accepted the gift you NOW have earned it and I NOW have paid you wages since my response was giving it to you? So I take it you thank yourself when receiving a gift as the response of both you and the giver necessitates a business transaction?

Surely you can do better...

 

[Skandelon]

My version says (.v 21) they "became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened." Is that the verse you are speaking of?

Yes.

That gets into the area of original sin. I'd rather not chase that rabbit in this thread.

Not really. We both affirm the doctrine of Original Sin. We are talking about the inability of mankind from birth to clearly see and understand truth so as being able to suppress it in the manner described here in Romans 1.

 

[canadyjd]

Did you or did you not say if God is responding to mans decision man has earned it? Sure sounded like it to me.

That's not what I said. I said if God is responding to man when He elects them to salvation, then man has earned it.

If God elects them to salvation based on what they do, then they have earned it where others did not earn it because they didn't do what the first man did.

If, however, God elects them to salvation based on His own purposes and desires, and then intervenes in their lives so as to bring them to a knowledge of the truth, and they then respond to God's intervention by placing faith in Jesus,....you have God's grace.

Completely illogical. I give you a gift, you then accept the gift, and since you accepted the gift you NOW have earned it and I NOW have paid you wages since my response was giving it to you?

I talking about your decision to give me the gift. If your decision to give me a gift is based on something I do, and you don't give the gift to someone else who didn't do the thing that I did, then I have merited the "gift" and the other person did not.

Surely you can do better...

I'm limited by the person I'm talking to.:smilewinkgrin:

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

...We both affirm the doctrine of Original Sin. We are talking about the inability of mankind from birth to clearly see and understand truth so as being able to suppress it in the manner described here in Romans 1.

I'm going to study the verse a little more.

peace to youraying:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

1 John 5:11-12 (NIV)

11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. :godisgood:

 

[Skandelon]

1 John 5:11-12 (NIV)

11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. :godisgood:

Amen!

John 20:31 NIV
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

1 Tim 1:16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

 

[webdog]

That's not what I said. I said if God is responding to man when He elects them to salvation, then man has earned it.

It's still false. If I have decided I will give everyone I invite over to my home a gift, they don't earn the gift by coming to my home, nor is it any less of a gift for those who refuse my invitation to come over.

If God elects them to salvation based on what they do, then they have earned it where others did not earn it because they didn't do what the first man did.

So a person reaching out their arms to accept a gift has done something along the lines of a work meriting payment?!

If, however, God elects them to salvation based on His own purposes and desires, and then intervenes in their lives so as to bring them to a knowledge of the truth, and they then respond to God's intervention by placing faith in Jesus,....you have God's grace.

...and His purpose and desire is to grant salvation to everyone covered by His blood. Only those in Christ are "elect".

I talking about your decision to give me the gift. If your decision to give me a gift is based on something I do, and you don't give the gift to someone else who didn't do the thing that I did, then I have merited the "gift" and the other person did not.

Completely illogical as I already addressed in my first reply.

I'm limited by the person I'm talking to.:smilewinkgrin:

The person you are talking to actually knows what a gift is, and understands it remains a gift regardless of the action or non action of the recipient.