AwesomeMachine
Member
I've read some interesting statistical analyses on this forum regarding random formation of life. But what is the probability that God created the world? The answer is based on faith.
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What is the Statistical Probability that God Created the World?
- Thread starter AwesomeMachine
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Zero, as he did create it, period.
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
Per my faith, I'd put the probability at 1. However, if I set my faith aside and look at it purely scientifically, I would still put out at a (relatively) high probability. Something in the neighborhood of 0.3 or so, based purely on guestimation without actually sitting down to work the numbers.
Unless of course, we go with Stephen Hawking's words, where he stated that in an infinite universe even the smallest probability then becomes a certainty. Then it is again at 1.
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Unless of course, we go with Stephen Hawking's words, where he stated that in an infinite universe even the smallest probability then becomes a certainty. Then it is again at 1.
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100%
Zero would be saying there is absolutely no possibility that he created it.
I think that it meant zero chance that God did not create the world and one hundred percent chance that God did create the world.
Correct, as probability to me still does not mean certainity, so that is why said zero chance he probably sis it, as 100 % certain did do it!
My degree is in statistics, and 0 means no possibility, while 1 means certainty. But I was really sure you meant 'he did without question,' just not stated as it properly should be.
Nevertheless, I do know that invoking probability into theology is rather slippery, to say it untechnically. Almost no one even understands when I tell my conclusions about whether tithing results in financial blessings. The only statistical conclusion I can draw from my own tests of my own finances is that there is no correlation, and therefore I ignore or challenge any suggestion of the contrary. But usually the numbers debate gives way to "you may not always see those blessings." If they are arguing from Malachi 3-- as usual-- that was not the case there. "... SEE if I will not open the windows of heaven...."
Nevertheless, I do know that invoking probability into theology is rather slippery, to say it untechnically. Almost no one even understands when I tell my conclusions about whether tithing results in financial blessings. The only statistical conclusion I can draw from my own tests of my own finances is that there is no correlation, and therefore I ignore or challenge any suggestion of the contrary. But usually the numbers debate gives way to "you may not always see those blessings." If they are arguing from Malachi 3-- as usual-- that was not the case there. "... SEE if I will not open the windows of heaven...."
AwesomeMachine
Member
God's
God's blessings cannot be analyzed objectively, because they're largely by perception. A study was done on healing prayer. It showed that prayer has no effect on healing. But the patients didn't know anyone was praying for them. I consider it a great blessing that I have food to eat. But I think if I took it for granted that I would still have food to eat.
God's blessings cannot be analyzed objectively, because they're largely by perception. A study was done on healing prayer. It showed that prayer has no effect on healing. But the patients didn't know anyone was praying for them. I consider it a great blessing that I have food to eat. But I think if I took it for granted that I would still have food to eat.
I heard a minister put it this way... The statistical probability that God "CREATED" the World... As TC said 100 percent... The probability it happen some other way
It's as if a group of Monkey's went into a printing factory... Set off a box of TNT and from the rubble of that massive explosion... There immerged a Webster's Unabridged Dictionary... Brother Glen
It's as if a group of Monkey's went into a printing factory... Set off a box of TNT and from the rubble of that massive explosion... There immerged a Webster's Unabridged Dictionary... Brother Glen
I gather you would agree, then, that when God told Israel to "test [him] in this," there was an empirical way to see the results of giving their tithes and offerings-- crops and livestock-- but today there is no way to competently test that.
AwesomeMachine
Member
You shall not put the Lord thy God to the test. I believe the benefits of tithing are largely based on one's perception which is opened by trust in God. In ancient Israel a tithe was in the form of an animal. The perceived benefit was more active reproduction in a herd, which was attributed to God's will.
But if a person tithes 10% of his income and monitors his net worth, and then stops tithing to observe the difference, it's not much different than jumping off a cliff to see if God will save him. Putting God to test is demanding objective proof of God's action. I have always at least tithed, and most of the time I have given to other Christian-based charities on top of that.
But the key is I don't ask for anything in return. I give an amount I'm comfortable with, with a cheerful heart; even a grateful heart that God has given me the means to give back to Him. I'm not a money counter. I believe money is a tool, not an end unto itself.
I never ask God for money, because He doesn't have any! I ask for what I want directly. God will provide a means for me to get what I ask for. Tithing is an exercise in trust which opens the mind to truth. Then I can see what God wants me to do to get what I want.
What if he says to do so, as in Malachi 3?
AwesomeMachine
Member
Malachi 3:10 does intend to provide an arithmetic means to confirm God's blessings. God is not furnishing proof of His blessings. He's just saying, "As a part of repentance from sin, bring offerings to the Temple, and see if things change."
At least it appears so in the given context. And I would say anyone who tithes regularly will have a more prosperous life than the same person if he had not tithed regularly.
You just never know what would have happened in the past if things were done differently.
That is proposing a challenge, or a test, per se. But we've already covered that I did such a test and it does not bear that out. I am in a position to 'test' this more abstractly now, as I cannot seem to recover from money problems due to car trouble last December in which I spent, and mostly wasted, about $1400 and had to buy a new one anyway. I have only given $100 to the church this year, and I wish I had that back, tight as things have gotten. Today I had to cash in some bonds still 7 years from final maturity to pay off all the bills for now.
Is the 'solution' to ignore the bills and property taxes due next January and start tithing? If I hadn't already tested such an idea years ago, to find it doesn't work, ..just don't know.
I think that testing in Malachi refers to taqking God at His word and see if he will indeed prosper and provode for those who give their first fruits unto Him, while the other testing is to presume that God will be forced to do something that he has made no promise to do, such as as jumping of a building and expect him to cancel off law of Gravity!
AwesomeMachine
Member
The thing is, you can't tithe and not tithe at the same time. Each period of time is unique. You have no way of knowing how things would have turned out if you did the opposite regarding tithing at any certain time. And, God is speaking to a nation of people, not an individual.
If you wish you had your 100$ back, then it really wasn't given from a cheerful heart. I think we can see from this that the Malachi reference does not apply to individuals, but to a nation. I also know that putting God to the test will never come out well. Satan told Jesus:
He led him to Jerusalem, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, cast yourself down from here,
for it is written, 'He will put his angels in charge of you, to guard you;'
and, 'On their hands they will bear you up, lest perhaps you dash your foot against a stone.'"
Jesus answering, said to him, "It has been said, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"
So, it was written of Jesus that God promised the angels would bear Him up. But Jesus still wouldn't tempt God by intentionally leaping off a precipice.
Demanding hard evidence to prove God's Word is something even Jesus wouldn't do. And the more you misuse that Malachi reference, the more trouble you'll find yourself in. Pray for what you want. But don't pray for money, because God doesn't have any money.
If you need a car, pray for a car. If you want to always have a home, pray that God will provide that. But what if God doesn't want someone to stay in their present home, because in three months it will fall into a sink-hole and kill the occupants? But the owner was busy trying to prove the Malachi reference on tithing, so he was not open to receive God's gift of long life for the man and his family.
The fear of losing his family's home drove a wedge between himself and God, so the man and his family were killed as a result. Maybe the car that failed you would have killed you and your family unless God got rid of it for you. But you were busy trying to gather hard evidence of God's fulfilling His promise, so you couldn't hear His voice.
Consequently, God had to forcefully tear the car out of your hands. Then, you blamed Him!
True; you can't know if you squandered your money.
I'm glad you recognize that, because so many people don't, and so many preachers and teachers push this differently.
No, from a dwindling bank account and a reluctant account holder.
You get the part about Malachi 3 being to a nation, but you still miss that God said to test him in this. The fact that God said not to make any idols or any likeness of anything did not mean God himself was wrong to tell the Israelites to make golden cherubim atop the ark. That compares to parents telling their young child to 'never' cross the street; but if they want him to, say, return the cup of flour they borrowed from the neighbor across the street it's still their prerogative to make that exception under the right circumstances.
Jesus needed no evidence. But he did provide hard evidence on some occasions [feeding 5000, walking on water, the transfiguration,...]
How's that?
Okay. It should never be said one is giving one's money to God.
How is it that God will provide things that can only (in almost all circumstances in modern America, anyway) be attained with money if he ain't got any?
"What if..."? Well, he could fill that sinkhole, couldn't he? He could make it 3 years or 3 centuries, couldn't he? He could arrange for the occupant to fall and break his leg at a cafe and sue the owner for plenty to buy a new bigger house, couldn't he? He could the occupant thrown into prison for a crime he didn't commit so he wouldn't be in the house when it fell through, couldn't he?
Maybe God wanted him dead, anyway-- like that beautiful 20-year-old whose funeral I attended 2 weeks ago; God didn't prevent an accident that wasn't her fault. But I don't know if she tithed, if you want to ask that.
He (maybe) kept me alive in this lousy world when I had my chance for a blameless exit? That makes me think of Ricky Ricardo, who, when he met the doctor who delivered his scheming wife Lucy, said, "I don't know whether to thank you or punch you in the nose."
No, last December I was not busy with such an endeavor.
In my telling of this, when did I say I blame Him? I sold it to a technician at the dealer, who apparently sold it to some guy who found me and called to ask me to transfer the title to him personally. I refused, because I had insisted on a bill of sale when I sold it to the technician. Then I got world from the turnpike authority that I owed some fines for jumping toll, until I turned in those documents affirming that I no longer own that car. I had to use some old tricks I learned working corporate security to find the address of that tech, but I got it.
But being honest doesn't help anyone in this world. Old Leo must have had it right when he said "Nice guys finish last." But, of course, the first shall be last and the last first.
Anyway, if I again sell a car to someone who would want to resell it, I will remove my license plates.
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