Not while in their sin natures alone!
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What is Total Depravity, part deux?
- Thread starter SovereignGrace
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Only those who God has given ears to hear with, and the heart/faith to respond to it will be saved.
Gentlemen,
I have not read the entire thread. But I would suggest that you read/quote the 1689 London Confession to see what our kinsmen in the faith have said.
Just a thought...
sdg!
rd
PS. So I will do it for the discussion. See below, especially paragraph 4 & 5. This may help. And as a warning, those semi-Pelagian Baptists among us may be offended?
Enjoy!
Chapter 6: Of the Fall of Man, Of Sin, And of the Punishment Thereof
1. Although God created man upright and perfect, and gave him a righteous law, which had been unto life had he kept it, and threatened death upon the breach thereof, yet he did not long abide in this honour; Satan using the subtlety of the serpent to subdue Eve, then by her seducing Adam, who, without any compulsion, did willfully transgress the law of their creation, and the command given unto them, in eating the forbidden fruit, which God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory. ( Genesis 2:16, 17; Genesis 3:12,13; 2 Corinthians 11:3 )
2. Our first parents, by this sin, fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and we in them whereby death came upon all: all becoming dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body. ( Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12, etc; Titus 1:15; Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-19 )
3. They being the root, and by God's appointment, standing in the room and stead of all mankind, the guilt of the sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed, to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation, being now conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, the servants of sin, the subjects of death, and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal, and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus set them free. ( Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 45, 49; Psalms 51:5; Job 14:4; Ephesians 2:3; Romans 6:20 Romans 5:12; Hebrews 2:14, 15; 1 Thessalonians 1:10 )
4. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions. ( Romans 8:7; Colossians 1:21; James 1:14, 15; Matthew 15:19 )
5. The corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be through Christ pardoned and mortified, yet both itself, and the first motions thereof, are truly and properly sin. ( Romans 7:18,23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8; Romans 7:23-25; Galatians 5:17 )
Or for those of you who prefer a hyperlink: 1689 Baptist Confession Chapter 6
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Rockson
Active Member
First of all the last two verses you have here don't even have the word "faith" in them. So why did you put them in there?
Next on the verses which have it you have to capture the context of how the word is meant to be taken. Generally "faith" is defined as the over all process but when one puts a focus on faith and believing one can see there is a difference. One can have faith...but it must be acted upon. Failing to do so results will not be forth coming. In Matt 9:27 states,two blind men came and asked for mercy.
Jesus had went about preaching about Gods willingness to save and heal so these two HAD faith. They weren't healed however. They came to Jesus asking for mercy and he asked them if they believed he could do it. The said yes. They had faith but up to that point they were not healed. Jesus put his hands on their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you” or in other words according to your choice of believing you now receive it will or will not be done.
Such signifies having "faith" is not an absolute guarantee of a result. One must act with their faith. One can see this as well in Acts 14:9 One had "faith" but wasn't healed (the same greek word for healed and saved is sozo) one had "faith" but wasn't healed until they acted upon it.
So when one looks at scriptures like Rom 5:1 or Gal 3:8 it's putting all things together as a one unit but if you asked Paul could one actually have faith and not see an end result he most certainly would have said YES.
Rom 10:9-10 even states this. He preached the word of faith, and faith comes by hearing the word of God but he goes on to say there's a outflow of what has to do with faith and acting on it. Choose to believe and choose to act on it. "
That if (he didn't say you would he said IF you do) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made ===> unto salvation. Rom 10:9-10
It's not salvation first or born again first....it's acting on your faith to bring about the salvation results.
Still amazed how much theology those from centuries ago knew of the scriptures, as compared to what most know today!Gentlemen,
I have not read the entire thread. But I would suggest that you read/quote the 1689 London Confession to see what our kinsmen in the faith have said.
Just a thought...
sdg!
rd
PS. So I will do it for the discussion. See below, especially paragraph 4 & 5. This may help. And as a warning, those semi-Pelagian Baptists among us may be offended?
Enjoy!
Chapter 6: Of the Fall of Man, Of Sin, And of the Punishment Thereof
1. Although God created man upright and perfect, and gave him a righteous law, which had been unto life had he kept it, and threatened death upon the breach thereof, yet he did not long abide in this honour; Satan using the subtlety of the serpent to subdue Eve, then by her seducing Adam, who, without any compulsion, did willfully transgress the law of their creation, and the command given unto them, in eating the forbidden fruit, which God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory. ( Genesis 2:16, 17; Genesis 3:12,13; 2 Corinthians 11:3 )
2. Our first parents, by this sin, fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and we in them whereby death came upon all: all becoming dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body. ( Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12, etc; Titus 1:15; Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-19 )
3. They being the root, and by God's appointment, standing in the room and stead of all mankind, the guilt of the sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed, to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation, being now conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, the servants of sin, the subjects of death, and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal, and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus set them free. ( Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 45, 49; Psalms 51:5; Job 14:4; Ephesians 2:3; Romans 6:20 Romans 5:12; Hebrews 2:14, 15; 1 Thessalonians 1:10 )
4. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions. ( Romans 8:7; Colossians 1:21; James 1:14, 15; Matthew 15:19 )
5. The corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be through Christ pardoned and mortified, yet both itself, and the first motions thereof, are truly and properly sin. ( Romans 7:18,23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8; Romans 7:23-25; Galatians 5:17 )
Or for those of you who prefer a hyperlink: 1689 Baptist Confession Chapter 6
Please lock the thread. The Pelagians on here have clearly won the debate by using their mystical teachings. 
They claim that we are the Gnostics here though!Please lock the thread. The Pelagians on here have clearly won the debate by using their mystical teachings.
Is that what everyone is trying to do with God's Word, Win?Please lock the thread. The Pelagians on here have clearly won the debate by using their mystical teachings.
No, just have it rightly divided!
I agree
You can have perfect faith and belief, in fact we can top that. You can have perfect omniscience where you understand all mysteries and know all truth. The complete knowledge, complete mysteries, complete faith..
1 Corinthians 13
2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
1 Corinthians 13
2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
We are trying to explain that "Salvation is of The Lord."
I have already once asked for this thread to please be locked. It's fruitless.
So, you are saying you don't understand what hyperbole is?
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