If it is, we are doing it all wrong in the churches of today.
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What is Worship?
- Thread starter Scarlett O.
- Start date
If it is, we are doing it all wrong in the churches of today.
Where is love mentioned in this?
Well I am going to let you give your explanation of this Passage.
Mark 12
28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ 31“The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32The scribe said to Him, “Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NNE ELSE BESIDES HIM; 33AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE’S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.
Keep in mind, I am providing SCRIPTURE.
LOVE of neighbor is HIGHEST WORSHIP. As scripture states: is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
Much more.....then some offerings and sacrifice? ALL.
"Love is not worship,"
No love? NO WORSHIP. Just TRASH.
You are out of your depth.
Was God mentioned?
1 John 4
8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
It appears, One of us does not know God. And one of us knows Love.
Love is worship.
Its Not Cheetos, or exercising,
Maybe its humor rather then love. Why God allow some folks to be pastor, God can joke too.
Worship is cashing the check?
How do you worship ,Rev ,with No love?
If I follow your ways will I be more like you? I always wanted the patience of a rattlesnake.
You just said that God is love so if God is love and love is worship, that means that God is worship. Right?
I like that. Is Christ the Lamb of God?
God is love. 1 john 4. Most folks don't have trouble with that statement.
Verse 16 however.
God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 1 john 4.
Tons of folks have trouble with this one, would rather it didn't exist. Why? because someone who abides with love abides in God. It makes love is very being.
Worst still with Jesus Christ who's eternal purpose is God so loved the world.
1 Corinthians 2
7but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;
9but just as it is written,
“THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD,
AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM.”
10For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.
Ephesians 3
9and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.
1 timothy 1
5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
I wanted to add you have a very intimate relationship with God. The Father and The Son don't have a THING between each other, They have a someone The Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3
26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. This might be part of the point if you can call anything worship It is Jesus Christ. Not only being the perfect love of God, it was done for YOUR SAKE, on YOUR BEHALF.
Often we say there he is on the cross. but you are in it too.
Romans 6
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Folks like to take direction of splitting you from God and Jesus.
John 17
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
God loves you as much as he loves Jesus. Your a son of God how can my caring or love for you not be worship?
Galatians 3
26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. This might be part of the point if you can call anything worship It is Jesus Christ. Not only being the perfect love of God, it was done for YOUR SAKE, on YOUR BEHALF.
Often we say there he is on the cross. but you are in it too.
Romans 6
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Folks like to take direction of splitting you from God and Jesus.
John 17
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
God loves you as much as he loves Jesus. Your a son of God how can my caring or love for you not be worship?
Would have been Idolatry believing Peter to be a god.
Nothing takes priority over God. The act of idolatry is NOT LOVE.
We can explain Agape. you know the difference between charity and I love pizza?
It is impossible to vilify Love. If it is evil it would not be love at all.
Who in the world holds special interest in not prioritizing Love above all things?
If there is ONE thing Satan would want GONE it is love.
Satan always teaches you are worthless and worthless to God.
Christ paid his life for you so your value is without question.
It doesn't say God was so greedy he sent his only son. or selfish, or ego maniac.
God so loved the world.
1 john 3
10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
11For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another;
14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
I'd hate to back you up into a corner, Was it worship when Christ laid down his life for us?
And I am curious what is your first reaction like is there a part of you that doesn't want his sacrifice to be worship or you wish it was and doubt it?
1 john 3
23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
Some might even contend if we took from the world your idea of worship stack it all up together it would be a filthy rag and trash to God. But if you abide in Christ who abides in you, you keep the commandment that is 100% genuine worship.
That is through him with him and in him in the unity of the holy spirit, all glory and honor is yours, almighty Father, forever and ever.
16We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
I'd hate to back you up into a corner, Was it worship when Christ laid down his life for us?
3rd time I'm asking you.
Tell me the cross was not worship. The LAMB OF GOD was not worship.
No, that was not worship.
Romans 12
1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
Well if the sacrifice of Lamb of God, Jesus Christ was not a worship what was it?
What's a greater act of worship then what Jesus did at the cross?
Genesis 22
4On the third day Abraham raised his eyes and saw the place from a distance. 5Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey, and I and the lad will go over there; and we will worship and return to you.” 6Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son, and he took in his hand the fire and the knife. So the two of them walked on together. 7Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” And he said, “Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” 8Abraham said, “God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” So the two of them walked on together.
9Then they came to the place of which God had told him; and Abraham built the altar there and arranged the wood, and bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10Abraham stretched out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” 12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” 13Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son. 14Abraham called the name of that place The LORD Will Provide, as it is said to this day, “In the mount of the LORD it will be provided.”
Abraham intends on worshipping God. And I am sure plenty of folks can tell you this prefigures what God does providing Jesus Christ, The perfect worship lamb of God.
Perhaps it might be worthwhile to properly define the meaning of Biblical love. Love is the first listed in the singular "fruit" of the Spirit and many believe that is so because all the following are simply various characteristics of love. 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 seems to verify this as "Charity is....."
John asserts in grammatical fashion that love is an attribute of the new birth without which none can love (1 Jn. 4:7). Hence, no man can truly love God who has not been born again. The grammar here has the term "begotten" as the primary verb found in the perfect tense while love is a present tense participle. Grammatically this logically means that love is the product of the new birth but is chronological simeltaneous with the act of new birth.
None but born again people can truly love in the sense of Biblical love. Biblical love is not primarily an emotion but an act of the will which is committed to what is right, good and holy. For example, Paul says that Biblical love rejoiceth in truth and not in iniquity. Biblical love is restricted within the boundaries of truth and holiness and that is why "God IS love" because God is holy.
Acceptable worship is restricted within the boundaries of holiness and that which is righteous. However, fallen man is not righteous nor can he do righteous because he is without BIBLICAL love as that comes only by new birth.
John asserts in grammatical fashion that love is an attribute of the new birth without which none can love (1 Jn. 4:7). Hence, no man can truly love God who has not been born again. The grammar here has the term "begotten" as the primary verb found in the perfect tense while love is a present tense participle. Grammatically this logically means that love is the product of the new birth but is chronological simeltaneous with the act of new birth.
None but born again people can truly love in the sense of Biblical love. Biblical love is not primarily an emotion but an act of the will which is committed to what is right, good and holy. For example, Paul says that Biblical love rejoiceth in truth and not in iniquity. Biblical love is restricted within the boundaries of truth and holiness and that is why "God IS love" because God is holy.
Acceptable worship is restricted within the boundaries of holiness and that which is righteous. However, fallen man is not righteous nor can he do righteous because he is without BIBLICAL love as that comes only by new birth.
If its biblical why isn't in the bible?
"Hence, no man can truly love God who has not been born again"
That is not a bible verse.
How come you went from LOVE is unimportant.............to now ONLY we can love?
The Pharisees claimed the same thing. The entire point of Good Samaritan is to show capability of accomplishing the AGAPE love is not a race or religion.
God can will the capability onto whom he wishes, when he wishes and how.
The excuse to sin says GOD HOLDS BACK and because he holds back you don't love.
That way the guy can say well I am divorce and Im going to keep my adulterous relationship and its not my fault its because GOD makes me sin, besides I've already been saved, I'm guaranteed righteous regardless of what I do.
Matthew 19
9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Matthew 5
32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Your going to very rarely hear these verses, not good for the collection plate.
"Love is the first listed in the singular "fruit" of the Spirit"
Love is GOD. Plenty of you would be first on bandwagon to call it idolatry if it wasn't in the bible. You can't get rid of it so you try to hide it and smear it. LOVE IS GOD.
You know the tree by its fruit. So if the fruit is LOVE what is the tree is Love.
1 Corinthians 13
13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Love is the strongest.
Love has never been your minimum requirement of getting salvation its always wrongly been faith.
Faith eliminated renders Love useless? No 1 Corinthians 13 says faith is not eternal. Love is.
Its no coincidence that GOOD SAMARITAN is not only the same chapter but the same event of answering WHAT MUST I DO TO HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”
Notice Jesus did not say, LIVE(be born again) and then you will do this.
Jesus Christ said DO THIS and you will live(BE BORN AGAIN).
Do you simply choose to be ignorant? I realize you probably have no training in Greek. I explained the Greek grammar of the text and that is precisely what that text means according to its grammar. Where there is no new birth there is no God kind of love.
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God, and every one that loveth[present tense participle] is born [perfect tense verb] of God and knoweth God. - 1 Jn. 4:7
John is not writing to lost people. John is writing to those who claim to be born of God and how they can know they are true children of God and have everlasting life (1 Jn. 5:13).
However, even from the English grammar point of view the one loving is born of God. You don't love to become born of God. That is not what either the English or the Greek Grammar teaches. However, I have a good idea that you could care less what the text actually teaches.
"Do you simply choose to be ignorant?"
According to your stance that capacity is determined by God.
So we can calculate by the sum of all existence at this moment, God is trying to set you straight.
God sent me to regenerate your common sense.
Suppose the shoe was on the other foot. Where I have your belief and you have mine.
I'm convinced you don't have the capacity to love God or neighbor based on my personal standard of what born again entails.
I am also convinced that only GOD can open up your eyes, that he has to reel you in himself for you to get any of this stuff.
Do I sit there and try to explain myself to you or explain the gospel to you? NO.
Why? Because I already insisting that there is nothing on my part or yours for you to be born again.
So how would I handle the situation. I appeal and pray to God to fix you.
The problem isn't so much I don't believe your take, but that you don't even believe what your saying. Cause if you did you would be praying for God to supply me the proper vision I lack rather then supplying it yourself.
Here is YOUR problem! I give you scripture that clearly states what I am saying and you give me YOUR OPINIONS that clearly contradict those very scriptures. You are your own final authority thus you are for all practical purposes claiming to be the God of your life. Discussion is over as YOUR OPINION is not inspired and you are not honoring or respecting the Word of God as inspired.
It is obvious YOUR UNINSPIRED OPINIONS are your final authority for faith and practice and therefore your religion is the religion of humanism. BTW all humanistic philosophy agrees with your opinions.
Isa. 55:8"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways," saith the LORD.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.
Isa. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
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No sir. 1.272 BILLION. I can point to catechism and say there are the rules. Its been done this way 2000 years.
Heres a link if you want some authority behind
http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedi...hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est.html
The reason squashed in each debate is your not debating me at all. This is a piece of cake.
While your view which has only been around last week, you can't even follow your own line of reasoning.
Every post you make is like your hitting another branch on the way down. Please pay attention to your own reasoning.
For example you just said:
"Isa. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"
Implying there is no light in me. Given there is no light, Given I am evil, Given I am incapable of understanding the gospel.
Why are you wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise?
Your post should sound like this: Dear lord help this person, Thanks.
Your OWN RULES say You can't help anyone, and they can't help themselves. GOD has to do it.
So your solution is when you run into someone with "no light" (which means anyone who tells you, you are wrong) is to argue with them. How stupid is that?
You should be praying to God to "fix" me.