What is your belief about when the church started?

Jesus started His first church before Pentecost.

 

Jesus is the Cornerstone (head of the corner) of the Church.

Sometime during His life time, maybe even when:

"the Word became flesh".

Or at His resurrection?

Or "it is finished"?

HankD

[ September 11, 2002, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Ok, a child is a child at conception, but it is not aged until it is birthed presented to the world on it's Birthday.

Jesus conceived the Church pre-Pentecost, but it was not birthed and presented to the World until Pentecost. The Pre-Pentecost issue is how we get the Post-Tribbers who do not see Matthew 24 as speaking to the Jews but unto the Church. For all intents and purposes the Church not not have been truly conceived until after the He arose. Even if you want to take when He breathed on them as the conception, it was not birthed until Pentecost and hence it is easy to see that Matt 24 does not apply to the Church and as far as the World and us are concerned it was birthed/started on Penetcost. Just as God knew Jeremiah before He was even conceived Jesus could speak of building His Church on the rock, but He had not yet laid the cornerstone.

 

I don't believe there is a church until the two ordinances are practiced, so the church didn't start until Acts.

 

Uh, we see both baptism and the Lord's Supper in the Gospels.

 

If the church is composed of those who are "in Christ" then no one could be in the church until at least after the resurrection. Perhaps the giving of the Spirit in John 20?

 

The church could not have started before the accession, as the body was only gifted after Christ ascended.

 

Baptism was a rite in many religions and there was a baptism unto John's message/John and while the disciple's did some baptizing they had no clue that they were a church because they did not understand anything about what Christ was going to do to establish His church neither did they have a clue that the Last Supper was the last or to be the catalyst for a church ordinance. Everything prior to Pentecost was preparation, conception, gestation and then birth in Acts 2.

 

Dmoore said,

Amen, just what I was thinking.

 

In my opinion we do not see the observance of the Lord's Supper in the gospels, but the institution of it.

 

The church was of a different makeup for sure before Acts 2, being made up of those who were Jewish, and then Jewish and Gentile after Acts 2. So I would say that the church as we know it today "began" at Pentacost, but the foundation and "leadership training" was before in the ministry of Jesus.

 

I would say that the church was not truly Jewish and Gentile until Acts 10.

 

In Genesis 3 with Adam & Eve. How 'bout that?

Rev. G

 

According to Acts Chapter 2 The church was added to. How can you add to something that did not have previous existence? Were there not over 100 disciples assembled together before pentecost?

 

Where in Acts 2 does it say the church was added to? There were 120 disciples gathered in Acts 1; they were not yet the church until Acts 2 with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The 3000 were added to those Spirit baptized in the first part of Acts 2.

As for the "Adam and Eve" theory, there is no biblical support for such a suggestion. It requires reading back onto the text rather than reading out of the text.

 

No, it does not require reading back into the text. What is the Church? Quite literally it is "the called out ones" (Gr. ekklesia). God has been calling out people for Himself since from the beginning of time. I realize that my statement would create some raised eyebrows... that's why I did it. Still, ALL the people of God, ALL of His saints, are His people (unless you are a Dispensationalist). There are Jews who are not "of Israel" (read the Apostle Paul's argument in Romans). Only those who have believed God are "children of Abraham" (see Romans and Galatians).

God's people have always been saved by grace alone, trusting in the promises of God. No one has ever been saved by works, keeping the Law, etc. Abraham "believed God and was justified." While Abraham did not have a full revelation of Christ, the atonement of Christ was efficient for Abraham (and for all the OT saints).

Rev. G

 

I am with Doc Cassidy here. I believe the "Church" was started by Christ when He called His disciples. Matt. 16:17-18(Prohphesied) Matt. 18:17 (already Existed) Somewhere in between these passages the church began. And it was a local church too. My two cents.

 

This is to define by the lowest common denominator of etymology (a fallacy in itself) rather than by the NT picture. When you look at the NT and the description of the church, it seems quite clear that A&E just don't qualify. In fact, by the NT definition, no group qualifies until Acts 2.

I am a dispensationalist and you got this one wrong ... I believe all the people of God are his people. I do not believe all the people of God are his church. Some of them are Israel, just as he said in the OT.

Without a doubt ... and on top of that, all who have ever been saved have been chosen by God to belief through the setting apart of the Spirit. But again, that has nothing to do with the issue of when the church started ...