Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
So entirely a work of God, except for the part about actually agreeing to do the work. Got it.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
What is your definition of a Calvinist?
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
- Status
Should have stated iy that the traditional and most held view would be holding to those things, but many Reformed would also add infant baptist, which I soundly reject!
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
I wanted to be born again before I got born again. Please don't switch things around as if you didn't know you were doing so.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Look. This is very important for some people. I don't understand it either, but if it makes him feel somehow in control that he gave the final say so to be born again then I'm actually OK with it.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I have to stand with biblical truth even if that means someone gets their feelings hurt. I'm not ok with someone who calls themselves a Christ Follower taking credit for their own salvation. We are not in control. If we were, we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Are you sure? How do you know?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Except for the constant insults toward those that disagree with him. He, obviously, isn’t ok with what others believe.
peace to you
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Oh, what magnanimity, granting a non-sought illusion of control to a paraplegic dumb man evidently lusting to control his fate by winking!
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Again, please stop insulting me.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Because I was there.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
But how do you know that you were not already regenerated and that is WHY you wanted to be saved? Have you ever considered that possibility?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Um, there was no insult in that post. Seems to me you are the one that has been throwing around PLENTY of insults in this thread.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Don't give me too much credit and don't patronize me either. I am well aware of the semi-Pelagian beliefs that men have the natural ability to respond to the gospel on their own. I have John R. Rice's books and I know he claims that we all have "some" light. He may be right. He also says explicitly that you cannot be saved without the work of the Holy Spirit. His book, "False Doctrines Answered from the Scriptures" top of page 275 in his words " Sinners are Depraved, Cannot be Saved Unless God Calls, but All Have Some Light, Some Calling." There is no subtlety here. You say you are given a new nature. You insist that you were given a new nature because you asked for it. OK. You admit you needed to be born again and that it was a gift. If you were so depraved that you needed a new nature why in the world would you show such animosity to a Calvinist who takes it one step further and says that maybe if you were too depraved to change on your own you needed help BEFORE you made the decision. After all, were not talking about surgery, this whole thing is about your WILL. There isn't that much difference in my book and John R. Rice considered himself some type of a moderate Calvinist.
A Christian who is happy with God being God.
I prefer the term 'Definite Atonement' to 'Limited Atonement' but TUDIP somehow doesn't have the same ring to it.
But yes, a Calvinist loves all five of the facets of the TULIP diamond. A four point Calvinist is a contradiction.
A Hyper-Calvinist is afraid lest one of the non-elect should sneak into heaven while God isn't looking. Therefore he does not support the free preaching of the Gospel to all.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I think this is the easiest summation of it. A Calvinist is happy with God being God, knows what God's lane is and what our lane is.
All Christians (regardless of theological opinion) are happy with God being God.
The interesting part is Calvinism does not stand apart from Arminianism in the topic of salvation (along the lines of the topic). Calvinism stands apart in the topic of damnation.
Arminianism attributes salvation to God, but allows for men to reject God to their own condemnation. Calvinism merely insists that there is a group of lost people who God chose to save and those lost who God chose for salvation cannot reject Him.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I've been looking at the classic Arminian view on this too. It seems reasonable. If I understand it right they are of the belief that a direct action of the Holy Spirit is needed or else no one would be saved. Is that correct? But the difference is - men can, and do resist this grace. My question would be, if this is given to all men, then are you not saying in a different way the same thing a semi-Pelagian would say - that all men have enough light to choose wisely. And if it is different, or if it is a direct, special conviction action on the part of the Holy Spirit, which is necessary to help men come to Christ or they would not otherwise come - then why is enough of this "help" not given to everyone. Why is this overcoming grace only overcoming sometimes. It seems you still have God choosing who will be saved. I certainly see the possibility of men being so attached to their sin that God judicially decides enough is enough but is that what it means? It seems there are more shades or degrees of this than we as men may know.
Classic Arminianism does attribute salvation completely to God (not man and God, but to God alone). Men, by the work of the Spirit can believe. Men by their own nature can reject.
Robert Picirilli's book, "Grace, Faith, Free-will", offers a good overview of Classic Arminianism.
- Status