What is your definition of cult?

[Inquiring Mind]

What is your definition of a cult?

SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS!

Adventist History

The Seventh-Day Adventist church traces its roots to American preacher William Miller (1782–1849), a Baptist who predicted the Second Coming would occur between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Because he and his followers proclaimed Christ’s imminent advent, they were known as "Adventists."

When Christ failed to appear, Miller reluctantly endorsed the position of a group of his followers known as the "seventh-month movement," who claimed Christ would return on October 22, 1844 (in the seventh month of the Jewish calendar).

When this didn’t happen either, Miller forswore predicting the date of the Second Coming, and his followers broke up into a number of competing factions. Miller would have nothing to do with the new theories his followers produced, including ones which attempted to save part of his 1844 doctrine. He rejected this and other teachings being generated by his former followers, including those of Ellen Gould White.

Miller had claimed, based on his interpretation of Daniel and Revelation, that Christ would return in 1843–44 to cleanse "the sanctuary" (Dan. 8:11–14, 9:26), which he interpreted as the earth. After the disappointments of 1844, several of his followers proposed an alternative theory. While walking in a cornfield on the morning of October 23, 1844, the day after Christ failed to return, Hiram Edson felt he received a spiritual revelation that indicated that Miller had misidentified the sanctuary. It was not the earth, but the Holy of Holies in God’s heavenly temple. Instead of coming out of the heavenly temple to cleanse the sanctuary of the earth, in 1844 Christ, for the first time, went into the heavenly Holy of Holies to cleanse it instead.

Another group of Millerites was influenced by Joseph Bates, a retired sea captain, who in 1846 and 1849 issued pamphlets insisting that Christians observe the Jewish Sabbath—Saturday—instead of worshipping on Sunday. This helped feed the intense anti-Catholicism of Seventh-Day Adventism, since they blamed the Catholic Church for changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

These two streams of thought—Christ entering the heavenly sanctuary and the need to keep the Jewish Sabbath—were combined by White, who claimed to have received many visions confirming these doctrines. Together with Edson and Bates, she formed the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination, which officially received its name in 1860.

Today the denomination reports that it has 780,000 members in the United States and 7.8 million members elsewhere.

Yep it sounds like a cult to me!

 

[El_Guero]

SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS!



Yep it sounds like a cult to me!

That is not entirely fair to them . . . they have repented of many (if not all) of their early heresies . . .

They are different, and I think that they are wrong. But, the last time that I asked, they place saving faith in Jesus alone . . .

Yes, they were originally caught up in the restoration movement like the mormons and church of Christ. But, unlike the Mormons they moved back towards orthodoxy. I believe that the CoChrist was orthodox.

IMHO.

 

[Gold Dragon]

That is not entirely fair to them . . . they have repented of many (if not all) of their early heresies . . .

They are different, and I think that they are wrong. But, the last time that I asked, they place saving faith in Jesus alone . . .

Yes, they were originally caught up in the restoration movement like the mormons and church of Christ. But, unlike the Mormons they moved back towards orthodoxy. I believe that the CoChrist was orthodox.

IMHO.

Excellent points El_Guero. We don't agree often so I thought I'd take this opportunity to give you one of these. :thumbsup:

 

[Inquiring Mind]

That is not entirely fair to them . . . they have repented of many (if not all) of their early heresies . . .

They are different, and I think that they are wrong. But, the last time that I asked, they place saving faith in Jesus alone . . .

Yes, they were originally caught up in the restoration movement like the mormons and church of Christ. But, unlike the Mormons they moved back towards orthodoxy. I believe that the CoChrist was orthodox.

IMHO.

You really want to defend a bunch of people that condemn the rest of us because we worship on Sunday?

These people believe that all of us drink in the fornications of mystery babylon.

 

[FundamentalOnly!]

That is very true, I studied the Millerite movement in college, they sold everything they had expecting Christ to return to earth. When he didnt, they called it the Great dissapointment!!!

 

[stanleyg]

You really want to defend a bunch of people that condemn the rest of us because we worship on Sunday?

These people believe that all of us drink in the fornications of mystery babylon.

We could do Jesus' job for Him and weed out each cult ahead of time. Then again, we can wait on our King and let Him do the weeding. Otherwise, He may blot our names from the Lamb's book of life. Why gamble on seeing our second death?

Matt13
[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
[26] But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
[36] Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
[38] The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
[40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Amen!

 

[Chemnitz]

Any group that has in their name the words Baptist, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal, or Bible church. JK!!!:smilewinkgrin:

 

[BobRyan]

These two streams of thought—Christ entering the heavenly sanctuary and the need to keep the Jewish Sabbath—were combined by White, who claimed to have received many visions confirming these doctrines. Together with Edson and Bates, she formed the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination, which officially received its name in 1860.

What a great urban legend!

Now for a few facts - to go along with Inquiring-fiction

#1. William Miller never was an SDA and never taught that Christ went into the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly sanctuary.

#2. The Millerites numbered about 50,000. There as a small group of 50 (read 5 0 INquiringM) reviewed the Dan 7, 8 and 9 prophecy on the 2300 days used by the Millerites to find that Christ's ministry focus had changed in 1844.

#3. Ellen White had nothing to do with the Sabbath teaching in Adventism - it was Bates and the Seventh-day Baptists.

#4. There were no doctrines given to the SDA's by Ellen White. And nothing I have argued on this board has used Ellen White as a source.


But again - that would be facts instead of IM fiction.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Ellen White?

This the part where you talk about the great track record stanley has - or is this the part where you show me quoting Ellen White or is this the part where you defend your idea of "Protestant Purgatory"??

Kinda hard to know what you will come up with next.

 

[BobRyan]

When we look at John Calvin, Knox and Wesley we see that they each came up with distinctive doctrines that their followers were "known by".

And those doctrines were not always well accepted by others. For example Wesley held that some of what Calvin taught his followers was wrong. It is only natural to "assume" then that since Ellen White is practically synonamous with SDA - that she must have introduced distinctive SDA doctrines that everyone else in the SDA church then latched on to - just as Calvin, Wesley and others did for their followers.

But "as it turned out" that is not how SDA distinctive doctrines were created - at least not the ones that you read in the actual statement of beliefs that all SDAs know and vote on each quinquinium (every 5 years in world-wide church convocation).

However there are doctrines (like the Trinity) where the SDA church was divided on the Bible issue (at an early point in SDA church history) with each side taking one side or the other of this doctrinal POV (as you frequently find in the Baptist congregations for example -- on some doctrinal topics) and when Ellen White came down on the Trinitarian side - everyone more or less lined up (given a few decades for the SDA group at large to think about it of course).

So when we find vaccuous vitriol coming from people like InquiringMind we at least have some room for grace - to allow that his ranting - while unchristian and false -- is not totally without some rock of excuse to hide behind.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Marcia]

I am not disagreeing with you at all Marcia. The reason I said it depends on who is doing the judging is because I have heard several on here call others on here heretics and also if we disagree with the beliefs of some really strong then we might be apt to call them a cult and really mean it.

It's against the rules of the BB to call anyone a heretic. We can say certain beliefs are heretical but we cannot call someone a heretic.

Heresy is departing from or rejecting an essential of the faith. I don't call people who disagree with me heretics. Christians can disagree on many things. But if they deny one of these, that is heresy:
1. The deity of Christ
2. The Trinity and personhood of each of the 3 persons of the Trinity
3. Christ's bodily resurrection
4. The virgin birth
5. Christ coming again

Maybe a couple of others, but I injured my back and can't sit long. I had to cancel a trip to CA where I was supposed to speak Friday night. :tear:

 

[Marcia]

We could do Jesus' job for Him and weed out each cult ahead of time. Then again, we can wait on our King and let Him do the weeding. Otherwise, He may blot our names from the Lamb's book of life. Why gamble on seeing our second death?

We are not weeding out anyone when we judge teachings according to the Bible. Jesus himself said to beware false teachers and that many would come. And they have!

God will decide who is a believer and who isn't. We can't say anything about people who don't deny the essentials but who may not be believers. But we sure can say something about those who adhere to, follow, and promote false teachings.